Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Open topics on the Contest itself, to include results-watch threads and other items of note.
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czing
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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby czing » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:14 pm

Oh yes I know it is very early for me to be thinking much about it. But like the scene from the Simpsons "it can flash fry a buffalo in 45 seconds"..."but I want it now" --- I am being a little Homer-ish right now LOL. I think in part because the story I submitted is one of my favourite stories I've written (it's a little different than a lot of my other ones) so I'm anxious to either hear it has achieved unexpected heights or it is available for me to send it to other markets. Maybe I just need to get more stories into a state for submitting them so I always have something to send out :)
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Henckel
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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby Henckel » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:34 pm

disgruntledpeony wrote:
czing wrote:Anyhow if anyone else wants to switch gears from Q2 to Q3 with me you are welcome wotf011

I've switched, but considering they're still judging Q2 I wouldn't expect results here for a month or two. Personal opinion is we'll be lucky to hear back by the end of September. wotf017


From experience, it normally takes four months. Thus, were looking at the last week of October. (A Thursday to be exact ha ha) also, I'm pretty sure all results are releaes at the same time. So, even though you submitted really early, you're likely to get results when everyone else does.

And yes, I'm losing sleep already, hoping I win.

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disgruntledpeony
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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby disgruntledpeony » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:42 am

Henckel wrote:
disgruntledpeony wrote:
czing wrote:Anyhow if anyone else wants to switch gears from Q2 to Q3 with me you are welcome wotf011

I've switched, but considering they're still judging Q2 I wouldn't expect results here for a month or two. Personal opinion is we'll be lucky to hear back by the end of September. wotf017


From experience, it normally takes four months. Thus, were looking at the last week of October. (A Thursday to be exact ha ha) also, I'm pretty sure all results are releaes at the same time. So, even though you submitted really early, you're likely to get results when everyone else does.

And yes, I'm losing sleep already, hoping I win.

It used to take closer to 2 to three months outside of Q1, I thought. Q1 always runs long.
If a person offend you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measures; simply watch your chance and hit him with a brick. ~ Mark Twain

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czing
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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby czing » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:36 am

So start holding my breath at the end of September? I'm sure I can make it until the end of October if I need to :)
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DoctorJest
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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby DoctorJest » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:19 am

There's definitely a range here. My current running average for responses reports itself as 88 days, but that's based on my submission date versus response date, so needs tinkering. (Also, I only have six data-points so far, so this is all a bit limited.) Adjusting to look at the quarter cut-off dates instead of my submission dates all the same, though, I get this:

* The average is almost exactly 80 days, but for mostly known reasons, Q1/Q2 this year have been the longest -- they skew this number a bit
* Slowest response-time to date was 115 days, for Q2 2019 just gone
* Fastest response-time to date was 38 days, for Q4 2016
WotF: R:0 / HM:4 / sHM:2 / SF:0 / F:0
Pending entries: Q3.v36 is in!

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czing
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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby czing » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:34 pm

DoctorJest wrote:There's definitely a range here. My current running average for responses reports itself as 88 days, but that's based on my submission date versus response date, so needs tinkering. (Also, I only have six data-points so far, so this is all a bit limited.) Adjusting to look at the quarter cut-off dates instead of my submission dates all the same, though, I get this:

* The average is almost exactly 80 days, but for mostly known reasons, Q1/Q2 this year have been the longest -- they skew this number a bit
* Slowest response-time to date was 115 days, for Q2 2019 just gone
* Fastest response-time to date was 38 days, for Q4 2016


I love when people have data to crunch!

Thanks for sharing what you've got.
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chuckt
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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby chuckt » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:52 pm

Vol 35 Q3 looks like it came in waves--end of September through early October?
36.1 R, 36.2 R

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Beth Powers
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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby Beth Powers » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:33 pm

czing wrote:I love when people have data to crunch!


I'll add some crunchy data: The earliest I've ever heard back on Q3 is August 17th (and that's not a fluke because I also got results on the 18th for another Q3), and the latest was November 10th (that one might be a bit of an outlier, but I did get results November 2nd once too)

Overall, I received 2 responses in August, 5 in September, 2 in October, and 2 in November.

Of course, that doesn't take into account that my results were not always the same, and I started submitting in the days of paper subs, and any day can be Thursday, regardless of what the numbers say.... wotf007

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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby JVAshley » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:38 am

Thanks for all the data crunching!
I love a good spreadsheet filled with info. wotf009
1x SF
3x HM
2x R

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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby Michael Kingswood » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:28 pm

He does give out Honorable Mentions, SHMs, semi finalists for those who don't reach the finalist stage. So far if he doesn't like a story no one does. I have heard the statement about it just not being a good fit for wotF but its been too long, that is no comfort for me. I have sent almost every type of spec tale there is to WotF, even before Dave came on board. I have 170 or so stories that I have or are sending out. I have sent maybe half to WotF, maybe more. I have sent somewhere around three-fourths of them to every market that might be a fit for them I could find. Anthologies as well as magazines. Many of the markets are no longer in existence. I found a new one the other day I might be sending 20 to 30 stories to. Not all at the same time of course, if they stay in business long enough. I don't know how long they will take to send a note back to me since I sent my first story there recently. As I said if one editor rejects something they all do, without a second glance usually. I know enough now to know that a large number of my first stories were badly written and to know how they were. So I assume I have improved significantly over the years but I have no scale to know where I am. For a couple of years I perceived myself to be almost pro quality but not quite but now I doubt that. Good stories maybe? You have to be better than good to get in WotF and most other markets but good is still a good place to be, it is on the way. Am I still climbing out of lousy? I don't think my writing is that bad but again I don't know, even though I have gotten a couple of signs that I am better than lousy. Mediocre then maybe? Again I like to think I am better than that but (Shoulder shrug). Most around here are good if not better, they get evidence of that. Those that aren't usually improve with their time here. I see very little evidence that I have moved forward more than a couple of feet from when I first joined here. Quite a few of those here when I joined aren't here any more because they got in or pro-ed out. I miss a couple of them. One person died. A couple just left for other reasons. Some that have been for a while probably are tired of me complaining-walloing in self pity-discouragment etc, even though I don't do it that often and haven't done it for quite a few months since I have not been here. Been working on novels, writing really short stories and some longer ones. Still I am writing and I am sending stuff in again. At least a few markets that haven't closed or are too full. Oh I wanted to say that the last 25 or so stories of the 170 only have one to three rejections since I haven't been sending out a lot of stories. But so many are still filled up, sent to almost every market I could find.


I've been away from the forums for a few weeks and haven't read everything after this. So apologies if someone else already said what I'm about to say.

Right. On with it.

Dude. If you've got 170 stories sitting around doing nothing, you are leaving money - possibly serious money - on the table.

You need to indie publish them. ALL of them. Then you need to put them into bundles of ten and publish those. Find some common themes or characters and re-bundle them along those lines, then publish those as separate collections. Bundle them by year written and publish those collections.

The problem I've noticed with editors is they become very jaded. They read thousands and thousands of stories, and so their palates become refined. But maybe a bit TOO refined. Something a super-experienced editors views as trite and repetitive, or not beautiful enough, or derivative, or whatever the literary phrase that just means "I didn't like it", can - and probably will - be something that an actual reader will enjoy, if not love. Because while editors see it all, readers don't. They are more receptive, and more forgiving. In some ways.

That said, there ARE super hardcore readers who are absolutely ruthless in their assessments. But they are a very vocal minority.

You say you feel like you've not moved forward in your writing. That is almost certainly not true. You are a much better writer now than you were at story one. You could not possibly have not improved, as much practice as you've put in.

Let the readers have access to what you've produced. You'll be surprised how many like what you've created.

Then create some more.

wotf009

V/R,
Michael
Michael Kingswood
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R x11

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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby LDWriter2 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:52 pm

Michael Kingswood wrote:
He does give out Honorable Mentions, SHMs, semi finalists for those who don't reach the finalist stage. So far if he doesn't like a story no one does. I have heard the statement about it just not being a good fit for wotF but its been too long, that is no comfort for me. I have sent almost every type of spec tale there is to WotF, even before Dave came on board. I have 170 or so stories that I have or are sending out. I have sent maybe half to WotF, maybe more. I have sent somewhere around three-fourths of them to every market that might be a fit for them I could find. Anthologies as well as magazines. Many of the markets are no longer in existence. I found a new one the other day I might be sending 20 to 30 stories to. Not all at the same time of course, if they stay in business long enough. I don't know how long they will take to send a note back to me since I sent my first story there recently. As I said if one editor rejects something they all do, without a second glance usually. I know enough now to know that a large number of my first stories were badly written and to know how they were. So I assume I have improved significantly over the years but I have no scale to know where I am. For a couple of years I perceived myself to be almost pro quality but not quite but now I doubt that. Good stories maybe? You have to be better than good to get in WotF and most other markets but good is still a good place to be, it is on the way. Am I still climbing out of lousy? I don't think my writing is that bad but again I don't know, even though I have gotten a couple of signs that I am better than lousy. Mediocre then maybe? Again I like to think I am better than that but (Shoulder shrug). Most around here are good if not better, they get evidence of that. Those that aren't usually improve with their time here. I see very little evidence that I have moved forward more than a couple of feet from when I first joined here. Quite a few of those here when I joined aren't here any more because they got in or pro-ed out. I miss a couple of them. One person died. A couple just left for other reasons. Some that have been for a while probably are tired of me complaining-walloing in self pity-discouragment etc, even though I don't do it that often and haven't done it for quite a few months since I have not been here. Been working on novels, writing really short stories and some longer ones. Still I am writing and I am sending stuff in again. At least a few markets that haven't closed or are too full. Oh I wanted to say that the last 25 or so stories of the 170 only have one to three rejections since I haven't been sending out a lot of stories. But so many are still filled up, sent to almost every market I could find.


I've been away from the forums for a few weeks and haven't read everything after this. So apologies if someone else already said what I'm about to say.

Right. On with it.

Dude. If you've got 170 stories sitting around doing nothing, you are leaving money - possibly serious money - on the table.

You need to indie publish them. ALL of them. Then you need to put them into bundles of ten and publish those. Find some common themes or characters and re-bundle them along those lines, then publish those as separate collections. Bundle them by year written and publish those collections.

The problem I've noticed with editors is they become very jaded. They read thousands and thousands of stories, and so their palates become refined. But maybe a bit TOO refined. Something a super-experienced editors views as trite and repetitive, or not beautiful enough, or derivative, or whatever the literary phrase that just means "I didn't like it", can - and probably will - be something that an actual reader will enjoy, if not love. Because while editors see it all, readers don't. They are more receptive, and more forgiving. In some ways.

That said, there ARE super hardcore readers who are absolutely ruthless in their assessments. But they are a very vocal minority.

You say you feel like you've not moved forward in your writing. That is almost certainly not true. You are a much better writer now than you were at story one. You could not possibly have not improved, as much practice as you've put in.

Let the readers have access to what you've produced. You'll be surprised how many like what you've created.

Then create some more.

wotf009

V/R,
Michael


Just saw this post. Yes, I think I have improved but only one editor thinks so. He isn't buying-well sort of, in a way I just found out. Maybe I went from being very lousy to maybe on the bottom of good. And we know that good isn't good enough. But maybe a couple readers think I am good. I have one fan on something called mewe.com and one or two on Facebook. Anyway. I plan on doing some five story sets. And two longer, 20 story, anthologies-I have a couple indie published novels. Those stories are from another group I have set aside to not send in. They have all been published online already. Right now I need to try a cover for five WESTERN tales and then figure out a cover for five stories in a set titled "Foibles". Plus one for "Isolation" But The newer, hopefully better, stories I still want to send in if I can get back into the habit of doing that.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

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The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby Wulf Moon » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:37 pm

This is for LDWriter's post, but it's a good reminder to all. Every writer goes through rejection. Frank Herbert had the most brilliant SF novel of the 20th Century rejected by every publisher he sent it to, and finally got a car repair manual publishing company--Chiltons--to publish it, and that was only because the other editors at the company wanted the guy that bought it to fail and be fired!

Long spells of rejection are a part of your start up. Recognize that everyone must pass this trial by fire to make it. And don't forget that our first million words are our practice sessions. Novice writers tend to forget that, and keep circulating stories that editors immediately spot as sub par. We can't see it, because they're our own beautiful babies. But some of those are ugly babies, and yet we keep wondering why they didn't win the beauty pageant. :)

This doesn't mean you can't turn lead into gold during your long and painful "million words" start up. And it doesn't mean some of the stories rejected by Dave can't be sold elsewhere--I've had two pro paying sales that only got certificates here, and I know of others that have had good results with stories turned down by Dave, Brad Torgerson's story he sold to Analog and winning a Reader's Choice probably being the most famous example. Much if it is being in the right place at the right time with the right story. And much of it is dogged persistence, which you've already proven you have.

If you know you are a writer, you write. Period. And if you want to be a published writer, you find ways to stomach the rejections so you can keep sending until you write that story that connects. It is critical that you don't lose faith in who you are, and that you keep practicing your craft and studying those that have mastered the craft. Often, those masters like Dave conduct workshops. If you want to change the learning curve, the best thing you can do is take a course by the man judging this contest. You'll get insight into his preferences like no one else can.

Part of the reason I went to Superstars Writing Seminar this past February was to do that. I signed up for a workshop with Dave. I won before arriving there, but it was a good plan. He teaches there every year. So do some other great WotF judges, like Kevin J Anderson and Rebecca Moesta and Eric Flint. I highly recommend the seminar--outside of the WotF workshop, it's the best I've ever attended. It can give you an edge, and can certainly inspire you as you see all these writers on the path, surviving the same trials that you are trying to survive right now. There is power in knowing that you are not alone. If any of you are serious about building a career in professional writing, find a way to go to that seminar. I'll vouch for it. So did Eric Flint when he was at Hollywood with us. And Kevin J is also a founder and organizes it, so it goes without saying how he feels about it. If you are poor, apply for their scholarship. If you've got some money, find a way to go. Here's my code to get you $100 off on admissions. WMOON

But if you're just looking for the best way to win this contest, I'd take a week long course with Dave. If you can't afford that, he's got shorter ones and even online courses. And if you can't afford that, he's got books and training videos. Some years back, when my writing partner said she wanted to write a novel that would get published, I told her she had to take a course with Dave at all costs. She couldn't afford one of his classroom ones, so she pooled her money together and did an online course. Dave loved her writing. He made her the first writer in his promotional Discovery Program. And he connected her novel with Kevin J. Anderson's WordFire press, and she sold her first novel. We can bemoan the system, and yes, the system to get professionally published sucks--that's why Hubbard invented this contest, but this contest can only help twelve new writers a year. So we have to become proactive, and find ways to give ourselves an edge.

I truly hope that helps. I do hope my experiences will help as well in my "HERE BE DRAGONS" blog and video on the WotF homepage. And Preston has his amazing Topanga Canyon story, and WotF just published his blog as well. Find points of similarity in our stories. Then, go chart your course and NEVER GIVE UP...and you will eventually reach your destination.

All the beast!

Wulf Moon
Wulf Moon http://driftweave.com
Q4 Vol 35 "Super-Duper Moongirl..."
Critters Readers' Choice Award: First Place, "War Dog," Best SF&F Short Story of 2018
Award's Speech: https://youtu.be/9Vf1eeeKPRA Located at 1:09:00

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Retropianoplayer
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Re: Discussion: Q3 Volume 36

Postby Retropianoplayer » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:31 pm

My remarks are addressed to LDWriter:

Dear, Sir:

170 stories written by you falls into my category of AMAZING.

About rejection, from the tome AN INSIDER's GUIDE TO PUBLISHING BY David Comfort, here are some highlights from the book about rejections or unfortunate incidents which occurred in the lives of the "masters."

"Cervantes had his arm shot off, an insane nephew gunned down Jules Verne. Tolstoy's face was rearranged by a rogue bear. Samuel Pepys was sterilized during a gallstone operation. Marlowe was shanked in a bar brawl . . . Lowry almost got castrated. Kerouac was twice nearly beaten to death in bar brawls. Beckett took a shiv to the chest from a Paris pimp . . .Returning to grieve the death of his friend F. Scott Fitzgerald, Nathaniel West ran a stop sign and, with his wife of two days, was killed in a collision. By that time, F. Scott's wife, Zelda, was a longtime asylum resident who, before being committed, had lain down in front of her husband's town car, and said, 'Drive over me, Scott.'

Margaret Mitchell stepped off a curb on Peachtree and 13th, and was delivered to the hereafter by an off-duty cabbie. . . during an after-work stroll in 1999, Stephen King was struck and nearly killed by a minivan. At the time he was busy with his ON WRITING memoir . . . By the end of his career, fearing that he was being tailed by assassins, Papa was diagnosed as a paranoid psychotic and sent to the Meninger Clinic for shock treatments . . .Harper Lee threw an early draft of To Kill A Mockingbird into the snow . . ."

So, not to belabor the point, best of luck to you. And who knows? Maybe one or more of those one hundred seventy amazing stories will get sold. If not now, maybe in three months. If not three months, maybe in five.

All the best,

Retropianoplayer


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