Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Open topics on the Contest itself, to include results-watch threads and other items of note.
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onelowerlight
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby onelowerlight » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:03 am

Just received this email:

Dear Entrant,



Your story has now been judged and did not win or place in

the 1st quarter. Even though you have never had to wait for

results in order to submit for the next quarter, this hopefully

gives you incentive to submit again. The more often you enter,

the better chance you have of winning, and improving your skills.



I do urge you to join our forum if you have not already, or subscribe

to our judge, David Farland's newsletter. Lots of great tips at both

locations to help you.



I do hope you are already working on that next story and do let me

know that you did get this e-mail.



Best regards,



Joni Labaqui


Oh well. At least it's good that the wait is over--and that this story is no longer tied up in this market.

Best of luck to the rest of you!

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby Dustin Adams » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:05 am

Onelowerlight,

Ugh. After all this time. Ugh.
Especially to go from the hold pile, which Kathy thought was pretty good, to R...

Different judge, vastly different tastes.

Maybe today will see the last of the results at last.

D
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby francisbruno » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:44 am

onelowerlight wrote:Just received this email:

Dear Entrant,



Your story has now been judged and did not win or place in

the 1st quarter. Even though you have never had to wait for

results in order to submit for the next quarter, this hopefully

gives you incentive to submit again. The more often you enter,

the better chance you have of winning, and improving your skills.



I do urge you to join our forum if you have not already, or subscribe

to our judge, David Farland's newsletter. Lots of great tips at both

locations to help you.



I do hope you are already working on that next story and do let me

know that you did get this e-mail.



Best regards,



Joni Labaqui


Oh well. At least it's good that the wait is over--and that this story is no longer tied up in this market.

Best of luck to the rest of you!


I got the same email.
This is really putting me off of the contest...
Going to send the story off to another market today to prove them wrong :D
Accomplishments:
SF: V32Q2, V28Q4
HM: V29 Q2, V30 Q2
Dave Farland: Short Story Master's Class, World Building
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby Dustin Adams » Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:53 am

wotf014
2x Finalist
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby E.CaimanSands » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:09 am

And I got the same form rejection email. Wtf?!? All three of us? There's no way my story was worse than my two HMs either! I was certain it was a guaranteed HM at least. And KD Wentworth clearly liked it enough to put it in the hold pile!

As the others have said, maybe I'll have to rethink submitting here first in future if DF hates my stories that much.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby Dustin Adams » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:18 am

There's a "hold pile" form R mentioned on the Hatrack forum as well this AM.

Crazy.

I'm sorry about your news, Gator.

D
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby soulmirror » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:34 am

A rejection is a rejection, whether porcupine harsh or kitteny stroft: I wouldn't let any rejection separate us from our bliss. Personally, I still think WOTF is a big first "splash" considering the folks it puts you person-to-person with etc ...
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby onelowerlight » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:47 am

I doubt it means DF "hated" our stories. Probably he just read through the hold pile to select the finalists, and because the rest of the contest was so far behind, he just gave all the others a form rejection in order to move on more quickly to the other quarters.

I agree, though--after all this time, it is quite a disappointment. Better luck next time!

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby Grayson Morris » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:55 am

onelowerlight wrote:I doubt it means DF "hated" our stories. Probably he just read through the hold pile to select the finalists, and because the rest of the contest was so far behind, he just gave all the others a form rejection in order to move on more quickly to the other quarters.

To be honest, I would be surprised if he handled non-finalists and non-semis in such a cavalier way, especially given the time and attention he's paid on his blog/daily kicks to teasing out what separates a rejection from an HM from something higher.

I'm shocked that stories KDW put in her "likely higher than HM" hold pile could be straight rejects to DF, but tastes differ. I understand Elinor's apprehension that this market may suddenly have become more "hostile" to her style of writing, with a different set of tastes manning the gate. I'm hoping (as other never-higher-than-an-HMs may be hoping) that it's become more "inviting" for my style, but I won't know till my Q2 result comes in.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby E.CaimanSands » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:06 am

onelowerlight wrote:I doubt it means DF "hated" our stories. Probably he just read through the hold pile to select the finalists, and because the rest of the contest was so far behind, he just gave all the others a form rejection in order to move on more quickly to the other quarters.



No, that can't be right, he really must have disliked our tales or he would at least have given us HMs. He gave one or two others HMs I believe a while back, and surely *someone* must have got a semi/SHM, we haven't heard about any of those. Annie, hopefully has something, we haven't heard from her yet.

The only thing I can think of, is that my story was a bit too mature or dark or male or literary for the contest. It's the darkest one I've ever written. There weren't any women in it, it hinted that the main character had suffered child abuse, maybe DF felt it was too strong for WotF teenage rating? wotf017 It also had some (mild, non-controversial I thought) politics in it, which maybe might irritate some.

That's my best guess anyway. Anyone else write strong stuff?
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby Strycher » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:18 am

Geez. Commiserations, guys. I am genuinely shocked to see you guys get the generic form reject after being in the hold pile. That sucks. =\

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby onelowerlight » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:37 am

Well, even if Dave did "hate" our stories, he's just one reader--an important reader, especially in terms of this contest, but not the only one. I expect to see a lot of you move on and have great success elsewhere. Good luck and keep writing!

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby francisbruno » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:26 am

onelowerlight wrote:Well, even if Dave did "hate" our stories, he's just one reader--an important reader, especially in terms of this contest, but not the only one. I expect to see a lot of you move on and have great success elsewhere. Good luck and keep writing!

Keep writing is a definite. Whether for this market or not is something I need to decide.
Accomplishments:
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HM: V29 Q2, V30 Q2
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby onelowerlight » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:57 am

francisbruno wrote:
onelowerlight wrote:Well, even if Dave did "hate" our stories, he's just one reader--an important reader, especially in terms of this contest, but not the only one. I expect to see a lot of you move on and have great success elsewhere. Good luck and keep writing!

Keep writing is a definite. Whether for this market or not is something I need to decide.

Well, it's the premier publication for beginning writers of science fiction and fantasy, so it wouldn't hurt to at least submit even if you don't "target" your stories the way Dave Farland advises to on his newsletter. All you've got to lose is 4-8 months and a bit of ego.

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby Strycher » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:04 am

onelowerlight wrote:
francisbruno wrote:Keep writing is a definite. Whether for this market or not is something I need to decide.

Well, it's the premier publication for beginning writers of science fiction and fantasy, so it wouldn't hurt to at least submit even if you don't "target" your stories the way Dave Farland advises to on his newsletter. All you've got to lose is 4-8 months and a bit of ego.


I can see how someone might be turned off to the contest after this quarter. But it was an anomaly. They will be behind for Q2 and probably Q3, but I don't think it will be this bad again next time.

Plus, it's one story every three months. I think most will have more than one story they want to market at a given time, so just picking one up out of circulation for the contest on any given quarter seems pretty easy to me. Worst case scenario--literally worst case--you have a 6 month rejection. That's not overly different from most other prestigious, high paying markets. Best case scenario, you win the largest, most prestigious amateur short spec fic writing competition on the planet, get paid higher than pro rates, get to attend a free writers work shop, and get to network with some of the big names in the business.

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby MJNL » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:20 am

Wow, guys. wotf014 Sorry, that sucks.

We should remember, though, that we don't actually know what the hold pile was for. We just assumed it was for stories KD wanted a second look at. So the final results might have nothing to do with DF "undoing" what KD did.

I know that doesn't make the situation any easier to stomach--but we were assuming. And you know what they say happens when you assume...

What were your stories' word counts? If you don't mind my asking.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby francisbruno » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:42 am

MJNL wrote:Wow, guys. wotf014 Sorry, that sucks.

We should remember, though, that we don't actually know what the hold pile was for. We just assumed it was for stories KD wanted a second look at. So the final results might have nothing to do with DF "undoing" what KD did.

I know that doesn't make the situation any easier to stomach--but we were assuming. And you know what they say happens when you assume...

What were your stories' word counts? If you don't mind my asking.


KD had mentioned before that there were stories that she put aside that deserved a second look. That doesn't mean a SF, but it is not in my mind a straight R. Dave has different tastes and doesn't agree, which is fine.

I have a day job and can't write 4 shorts a year plus work on longer pieces, so I have to readjust my priorities. It doesn't mean I will never enter again, but I need a break.

My word count was: 5600
Accomplishments:
SF: V32Q2, V28Q4
HM: V29 Q2, V30 Q2
Dave Farland: Short Story Master's Class, World Building
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby E.CaimanSands » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:43 am

That's true, Marina. We don't *really* know if KD saw merit in our stories, maybe she just hadn't got around to reading them yet after all. wotf017 But judging by the number of us with previous SFs etc in that hold pile, it didn't seem like a random selection.

As for my story length: 3700 words. Short, yes! Maybe that was what he really didn't like! wotf006 My KD SF was, incidently, also 3700 words. wotf001 I still haven't written anything over 6000, though I was planning on making a big effort to do that for Q4. Though now, I'm less sure about that. If I'm not likely to do very well here anymore, maybe I'm better off sticking to the short ones and aiming elsewhere. wotf017

I would be interested to see what the lengths of everyone's stories are too. If we all wrote short ones, it might tell us something.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby gower21 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:51 am

Wow guys, I was not expecting that. Rejections are awful--wish I had something amazing to say that would lift spirits.

Also in bad new: looks like Stewart and I will be headed back to basic art history.

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby s_c_baker » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:10 am

Flat rejections? Bummer.

Although I tend to agree with Marina--this might be a case where speculation got the better of us. "Hold" might simply have meant "these stories are not finalists, so I will deal with them later"? (But I'm entirely ignorant of where the "hold pile" terminology came from anyway, since I wasn't on-forum at the time.)

Breaks can be good, though. Perhaps once we have a slightly better idea of the things David likes, contest-wise... (I can't use DF to refer to him, because that meanssomething very different to me.)

Still--major bummer. wotf014 (On the other hand, it puts me with my flat rejection in good company for the quarter!)

(Maybe I should head over to the local [public] library and check out some of David's stuff...)
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby morshana » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:15 am

My commiserations to everyone! Yeah, that does suck to get a form rejection after being in the hold pile. Makes me wonder how much the new gatekeeper's tastes differ from the previous one's...

I think we'll get a better idea as Q2 results come out? Although every story is different, even with the same author.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby Strycher » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:21 am

s_c_baker wrote:(But I'm entirely ignorant of where the "hold pile" terminology came from anyway, since I wasn't on-forum at the time.)

E.CaimanSands wrote:I toodled over to the SFWA website to see what was there, and stumbled across another person in the "hold" pile! His website is here, http://www.onelowerlight.com/writing/?p=7229&cpage=1#comment-36784 where he reproduces the exact same email I got.

Going to bed now... wotf043


onelowerlight's blog wrote:Dear Entrant,

I wanted to let you know that we have a delay in the handling of the 1st quarter due to the loss of our coordinating judge, K.D. Wentworth to cancer last week. Please bare with us while we get over this difficult time and organize the continuance of the contest. We do have another judge that is taking over and will make that annoucement soon.

Your story was placed in the hold category while K.D. was reading the hard copy submissions. You will be notified in the next month where you stand.

I’m sure you can understand the delay and thank you for being patient.

Best,

Joni Labaqui- Contest Director

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby dantzel » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:25 am

Strycher wrote:
onelowerlight wrote:
francisbruno wrote:Keep writing is a definite. Whether for this market or not is something I need to decide.

Well, it's the premier publication for beginning writers of science fiction and fantasy, so it wouldn't hurt to at least submit even if you don't "target" your stories the way Dave Farland advises to on his newsletter. All you've got to lose is 4-8 months and a bit of ego.


I can see how someone might be turned off to the contest after this quarter. But it was an anomaly. They will be behind for Q2 and probably Q3, but I don't think it will be this bad again next time.

Plus, it's one story every three months. I think most will have more than one story they want to market at a given time, so just picking one up out of circulation for the contest on any given quarter seems pretty easy to me. Worst case scenario--literally worst case--you have a 6 month rejection. That's not overly different from most other prestigious, high paying markets. Best case scenario, you win the largest, most prestigious amateur short spec fic writing competition on the planet, get paid higher than pro rates, get to attend a free writers work shop, and get to network with some of the big names in the business.


Agreed! Here's a thought- we know KD didn't get to read everything before passing away - what if everything she didnt read was placed in the hold pile?

It's also very clear that even finalists in one quarter can have a flat rejection in the next, even by KD - so this doesn't sound very different.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby onelowerlight » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:28 am

Mine was in the 15,000 word range, first part of a novel. Genre-wise, it falls into space opera / science fiction romance, kind of like C.J. Cherryh or Lois McMaster Bujold. A lot of my alpha readers say it reminds them of the "Our Mrs. Reynolds" episode of Firefly.

I'll be publishing it in the next few days, once I'm back in the States. You can check out my blog for more details.

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby gower21 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:31 am

According to Dave Farland's Daily Kicks, it sounds like they have a computer program with buttons at the bottom. He can hit "reject" or "hold" -- maybe there are buttons that say HM, Semi, and so on. It sounds like he reads the first two pages and decides if he would read further. I wonder if KD did the same thing and had several stories that passed the first two pages test waiting while she was reading the first two pages of all the paper subs. For her to have started giving out HMs I'm guessing she was on her second read around for the e-subbers. This is all just speculation as we we'll never know what really was going on.
Last edited by gower21 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby francisbruno » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:32 am

In my critique from KD for my SF she said she had to go back and re-read it a few times to see if she missed something. In my mind, this was the hold pile. She read it once. Compelling protag and environment, but was missing something. Set it aside, then go back and re-read when she finished the slush.

Except in rare circumstances, The stories had to be read at least far enough for a straight rejection before the finalists were chosen.
Accomplishments:
SF: V32Q2, V28Q4
HM: V29 Q2, V30 Q2
Dave Farland: Short Story Master's Class, World Building
Viable Paradise XVI
Uncle Orson's 2011
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby bobsandiego » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:49 am

Man I feel for you on those flat form rejections and I can totally relate to a sense of anger.
Back in 2010 I submitted a short story to the contest. In my subjective opinion the best I had written. At this point I had already scored two HM and two SF so I was feeling pretty god about the work.
KD sent it back with a flat rejection and for the first time in scores and scores of submission to all sorts of market I got really angry and hurt by a rejection. I focused on novels for the next year and a half, not returning to submit to the contest again until Q1 this year.
What did I submit? The rejected piece, retrusted and re-written, but basically the same story. This time it scored an HM. Was it better written? Did I catch KD in a better mood? We need to rememebr that this is all subjective, and even the same judge will have different opinions on different days.
As the question of dark tones, well until I stumbled upon this forum I had no idea that the contest was supposed to be geared towards acceptablity at high schools and that dark tones were less likely to win. All my HM and SF stories were dark in nature, often with unsavory characters at the helm, they still scored well. (though in my opiion KD missed the whole point of my story "Regret, I am allowed.")
Go ahead be angry, be hurt, but keep writing, keep shooting at the target because as my favorite movie says, 'Dreams don't die, no no not by themselves, we kill them."
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby gower21 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:53 am

Well, the hold pile results were certainly unexpected. A bit frustrating to have had your stories read by two different judges with two different possible outcomes. This was a wild quarter, I think if you believe strongly in the story it is worth taking another read through and re-entering.

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby s_c_baker » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:59 am

bobsandiego wrote:We need to remember that this is all subjective, and even the same judge will have different opinions on different days.

Indeed.
Stewart C Baker - 1st place, Q2 V32
My contest history: Semi-finalist, R, HM, R, R, HM, HM, R, R, R, R, HM, R, R, R, R, Winner
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

Postby Rebecca Birch » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:11 am

Commiserations to those of you getting R's out of the hold pile. That has to be very frustrating.

At least, those stories can now move along in their journey towards eventual publication. I have every expectation that there is a market somewhere that will find them to be a match for their needs.
Rebecca Birch
Finalist - 2, SF - 1, SHM - 1, HM - 18, R - 6
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Short Story Collection--Life Out of Harmony and Other Tales of Wonder


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