Jibber Jabber - Q1 - 29

[austinDm]

I seem to be blocked from replying.

This must be too sensitive even for 29/1

Do you have too many nested quotes? I know that sometimes give me trouble until I delete one of them.

[Ishmael]

No, I didn't have any. I had quite a lengthy reply, which repeatedly produced a 'denied access' message. When I deleted the whole thing and just wrote the 'I'm blocked' message, I was not blocked.

I wondered if it was to do with specific blocked words (not expletives.) Never mind. Let's have another try with just the first paragraph..

But see where you go if you restrict your definition of free will to that which is possible in a given set of circumstances. The concept is no longer an absolute but a matter of degree. Since the degree can easily be restricted to the point where no good choices are possible, you are bound to state that in a moral dilemma a person freely chooses evil, whilst an automaton is free to choose the only choice available.

[Ishmael]

And the second?

For philosophical purposes it is common to restrict the concept of free will to moral choices. Now to make a moral choice you must be an (imperfect) moral agent, which must mean you have the capacity to choose good or evil. If you have no capacity to choose evil you are not a moral agent because there can be no virtue in choosing good where there is no other choice.

[Ishmael]

I shall not push my luck further.

[amoskalik]

There are two aspects to free will, The free part deals with choice. Choice is more complicated than it seems. It comes with at least two prerequisites.
1. Self awareness. Think of a simple program with a conditional statement. It does not make a choice when that conditional statement is triggered, that choice was already made by the programmer. Because the program is not self aware, it cannot do anything beyond react to external conditions.
2. More than one possible action (where "Do nothing" is considered a possible action). For instance the sun performs a very important action, it convert hydrogen to helium and releases heat and radiation in the process. Even were it self aware, it would have no choice but to do so.

The other aspect of free will is equally important. It is the "will" part. Choosing between two simple options that can easily and immediately be executed is not what most of us would consider free will. For instance if I choose between a blue and a red shirt to wear. Instead, the option that is chosen should require an extended and significant effort to carry out. For instance, someone who has a strong creative drive to write can choose to be a writer or not, Either choice will be a continuous source of internal and/or external conflict that must be overcome over an extended period of time. You do not simply declare yourself a writer, you must apply butt to chair and fingers to keyboard again and again and again. An alcoholic does not declare himself sober, he must resist the temptation again and again and again. These choices require will.

Will is a finite resource. We can and often do run out of will to complete some task or hold some line. The prerequisites for will are complex, but some sort of moral value system is likely one of them. The more robust this system is, the more deeply it is embraced, the more will it supplies. However, a moral system can only supply will for actions that are consistent with it, therefore it acts as a constraint (limits the free part of free will) in proportion to its ability to empower (provides the will to act).

So yes, free will is a matter of degree in at least two dimensions.

[Ishmael]

I tend to disagree that self-awareness is a prerequisite of choice. Self-awareness involves reflexive abstract thought. A squirrel who overcomes the sort of assault course nowadays used by researchers to test his intelligence is not displaying self-awareness, merely a talent for solving problems and getting food. He is however making choices.

Certainly a minimum of two alternatives is required but as I mentioned before, the mere existence of a theoretical alternative does not make it a possible choice for every particular individual. It is easy enough to show examples of alternatives that might be open to one person but not another. There are a variety of reasons that may block an individual from availing himself of them.

I would also suggest that we must be careful not to conflate different definitions of the term 'will'. At the lowest level it can be synonymous with whim, for example. The Red Queen can go around ordering 'Off with his head' because it lies within her power to do so; she does not have to give the matter any significant amount of thought, let alone effort.

At the other extreme the Renaissance doctrine 'A man can do all things if he will,' effectively means that sufficient determination can triumph over any obstacle. One can argue however that will in this sense is not free but very expensive. However here I am doing with the word free exactly what I complain about in respect of the word will.

Nietszche of course tells us that moral systems are effectively a self imposed constraint upon free will, especially when it comes to the feeble masses imposing psychologically the restraint they can impose in no other way upon strong individuals.

[storysinger]

So I went to the first page of this thread and noticed some forumites joined in 2008. It made me wonder who has been here the longest?

[Ishmael]

So I went to the first page of this thread and noticed some forumites joined in 2008. It made me wonder who has been here the longest?

Check the members' list. Sam Hidaka and Brad are both on page one for example.

Now you can't expect me to concentrate more than that. I've had an earworm since Friday (the day after the Thursday before) evening. All together now ...

You talk like Marlene Dietrich
And you dance like Zizi Jeanmaire
Your clothes are all made by Balmain
You've got diamonds and pearls in your hair, yes you have....

[ThomasKCarpenter]

I feel like I've been on these boards forever! Though many with less time have more posts. :)

[austinDm]

I feel like I've been on these boards forever! Though many with less time have more posts. :)

You beat me by less than a month. And here I though I was the old timer

I remember talking with people who are no longer active on the forum.

*back in my day . . .*

[Holly Heisey]

I joined in 2012 and I still feel like an old-timer. Heh. I actually joined in this very specific thread. Nostalgia!

[ThomasKCarpenter]

I feel like I've been on these boards forever! Though many with less time have more posts. :)

You beat me by less than a month. And here I though I was the old timer

I remember talking with people who are no longer active on the forum.

*back in my day . . .*

I didn't realize how long I've been here until this thread.

[storysinger]

So many contributors to thread Q1-29
Through the long years one post at a time
Creative names never nearly out of line
Noiseless communication intelligence prime

New direction now the goal five thousand
When we get there remains to be seen
In our hands we all have a mouse and
One click @ a time we add to the blue screen

[Ishmael]

Oh, where is the magic, the essence sublime
That lies at the heart of Q1, twenty nine?
So many have striven and been brought to naught;
So many scraped barrels of writerly thought;
For all who come second and third there's a goal
For all who get HMs or have R's to thole,
If one of us triumphed, why there's a chance yet
For those who still struggle a vict'ry to get;
Some day we may all reach that grand gala show -
But next time is my turn I'll have you all know!

[storysinger]

Some day we may all reach that grand gala show -
But next time is my turn I'll have you all know!

I hope your words are truly prophetic.
Good luck and hope to see you there.

[Ishmael]

Ditto. Are we downhearted? - No!

[s_c_baker]

I feel like I've been on these boards forever! Though many with less time have more posts. :)

You beat me by less than a month. And here I though I was the old timer

I remember talking with people who are no longer active on the forum.

*back in my day . . .*

I didn't realize how long I've been here until this thread.

It is quite the time capsule!

[Isto]

I thought about reviewing this thread to count how many Q1-29ers have gone on to make finalist in the years since. I was going to write down each name, then check each quarter of each year, then I saw how many posts.. well, I have things to do this week (like eat and sleep and write write write... and get some medicine for being obsessive-compulsive, because I obviously need something). But I bet it's a bunch. Some are gone from the forum, but a lot aren't. Still, curious.
Q1-29 was more than a good quarter; it's the epic quarter that keeps on giving.

[bobsandiego]

I thought about reviewing this thread to count how many Q1-29ers have gone on to make finalist in the years since. I was going to write down each name, then check each quarter of each year, then I saw how many posts.. well, I have things to do this week (like eat and sleep and write write write... and get some medicine for being obsessive-compulsive, because I obviously need something). But I bet it's a bunch. Some are gone from the forum, but a lot aren't. Still, curious.
Q1-29 was more than a good quarter; it's the epic quarter that keeps on giving.

Not a finalist, but this was the quarter I discovered the forums,

[Ishmael]

Just remember you read it here first!

[Imagination Vortex]

I started lurking months before, but this quarter was my first entry in the contest. Only 2 volumes have come out since then, but it feels like I've been here forever. I thought my first post was actual in this thread but turns out it was my second post. My first was in the introduction thread. My second post was to report my rejection. Ahhhh if only I'd made it farther by now (this forum needs a day dreaming smiley).

[s_c_baker]

2 HMs is pretty good! I only have one more and I've been entering every quarter since December 2011.

[s_c_baker]

Also, this thread now accounts for only 9% of my total forum posts. Sadness!

[Imagination Vortex]

2 HMs is pretty good! I only have one more and I've been entering every quarter since December 2011.

Don't forget your Semi!
I do love my 2 HM's though. Especially my second, because it validated that my first was not a fluke.
Still would have been nice to have gotten a phone call by now. Maybe soon...
*disappears to go work on Q4*

[s_c_baker]

2 HMs is pretty good! I only have one more and I've been entering every quarter since December 2011.

Don't forget your Semi!
I do love my 2 HM's though. Especially my second, because it validated that my first was not a fluke.
Still would have been nice to have gotten a phone call by now. Maybe soon...
*disappears to go work on Q4*

The semi was my very first entry, and was immediately followed by a rejection.

(It's since been rejected a whole buncha times by a whole buncha places, then chopped in half and won me a little money (but no publication) and is currently being held for review by an anthology for which it is a terrible fit. It still holds a place near and dear to my heart, but I'm not sure it'll ever sell unless I self-pub it!)

[klaatu]

It's alive!

[Ishmael]

2 HMs is pretty good! I only have one more and I've been entering every quarter since December 2011.

Some finalists are so gobsmacked they can't even count!

My contest trajectory: Semi; R; HM; R; R; HM; HM; R; R; R; R; HM; R; R; Not really Pending any more.

[storysinger]

388 and counting. Some of the names on this thread are impressive.

[s_c_baker]

I only count three of them because one was for the same story submitted under different judges.

Although I must admit that counting is not my strongest ability.

[Holly Heisey]

I only count three of them because one was for the same story submitted under different judges.

Although I must admit that counting is not my strongest ability.

I'd count that as two separate. Because 4 is better than 3. Math is sometimes wonderful. (I say sometimes, because usually I try to avoid committing math if I possibly can.)