Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Open topics on the Contest itself, to include results-watch threads and other items of note.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby kentagions » Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:35 am

The one I want to enter is in progress, but last month I finalized two stories that will work. It's nice to be ahead of the curve.

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby katsincommand » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:49 am

Eh, I've got about two and a half months....

kid, I kid! I've got a story that needs revising after I finish my novel and my novella, and two short story edits I'm currently working on. Two months then.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby austinDm » Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:02 pm

The story I plan to submit this quarter is currently with Analog. I may or may not get it back in time. If not, I have plenty of other stories in the works.

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby LDWriter2 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:45 pm

Well, I have a story. wotf007

The one I was going to send to Q4. So hopefully the editing process, with some help, will be what it needs.

In fact it's possible that I could send it in to one or two other markets by the time the deadline comes up.


I have at least three other ideas I thought about doing. That includes one that David might think of as supposedly humorous but yet it would be written seriously. I will write it some day soon even if I don't enter it.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby storysinger » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:46 pm

Image
My smilie AI is writing my Q1 for me. Can hardly wait to read it.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Ishmael » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:59 am

Here is a serious question.

When you have a great story, how do you know if you've written it down?

Attempted clarification:
When I read the words of this great story I've written, it reads like a great story, but since I had clear ideas in my head to begin with, how do I know if the words I've written down convey those ideas or whether my feeling that it's a great story results from the ideas and not what I wrote on the page?

If anyone has the faintest idea what I'm talking about I should welcome thoughts on the problem.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby bobsandiego » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:09 am

Ishmael wrote:Here is a serious question.

When you have a great story, how do you know if you've written it down?

Attempted clarification:
When I read the words of this great story I've written, it reads like a great story, but since I had clear ideas in my head to begin with, how do I know if the words I've written down convey those ideas or whether my feeling that it's a great story results from the ideas and not what I wrote on the page?

If anyone has the faintest idea what I'm talking about I should welcome thoughts on the problem.

You never know is my honest answer.
The closest you can get is when people react to the piece the way you hoped that they would.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Dustin Adams » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:39 am

You want to know if the awesomeness in your head has translated to the written word upon the page?

Bob's right. Others' reactions.

If they react how you intended when re-reading your story, then your imagination has matched your art has matched your intentions.

That, or put it away for six months, then read it.

But in the end, we write for readers, so we have to listen to their reactions. No matter what we think of our work - once we give it to someone - it's theirs.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby MattDovey » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:18 pm

You always need other people's reactions to a story. Because the whole point of writing is for other people to read it and react to it; sending a story out without anyone else ever having seen it would be like a chef sending a soup out without ever tasting it as it cooks.

As Dustin says, distance is important as well. Write something else (even just a flash) before you get feedback on a story, so you don't get precious about it, and react defensively, and ignore good advice; to paraphrase Neil Gaiman, when someone tells you how to fix a problem, they're nearly always wrong, but when someone points a problem out, they're nearly always right. You need to be a in a headspace where you can hear them.

Think of a handful of non-leading questions to ask readers once they're done: "how do you think the magic system works?", "why do you think Miss X took the decision she did?", "what was Mr Y trying to achieve with all his nefarious plans?". Questions that are obvious to you, but will help you see when you've not quite written with enough clarity.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Ishmael » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:27 am

Since all three of you seem agreed that I need some reactions before submitting, and since we've plenty of time, I'll offer it for crit exchange to anyone out there who's in the mood. This is SF and under 10,000.

I'm going to take Matt's advice and try to write something else now, so I don't feel too wound up about this one.

I know I always say that the most recent one is the best thing I've ever written and this is also the fourth lengthy short story I've written since the summer, but at the moment it feels different somehow.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby disgruntledpeony » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:01 am

Ishmael wrote:Since all three of you seem agreed that I need some reactions before submitting, and since we've plenty of time, I'll offer it for crit exchange to anyone out there who's in the mood. This is SF and under 10,000.

I'm going to take Matt's advice and try to write something else now, so I don't feel too wound up about this one.

I know I always say that the most recent one is the best thing I've ever written and this is also the fourth lengthy short story I've written since the summer, but at the moment it feels different somehow.


Once my story is anywhere close to working order, I will take you up on that exchange. I also happen to be a female-type, which I noticed seems to be part of your target audience according to your post in the crit forum. Basically, once I'm ready for feedback I'll drop you a line there.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby alpha » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:46 pm

I'll take you up on that, Ishmael. Mine is sf, about 5,000-6,000 words. (I don't have it in front of me at the moment.) I'll send you my story later when I'm on my computer, and I'll be happy to read yours. If you can send it to me tonight, I expect to be able to turn it around for you this weekend.

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Ishmael » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:41 am

Thanks to alpha (towards whom the precious manuscript even now wings its way) and disgruntledpeony upon whose further word I hang with bated breath, (definitely not baited breath because of my expensive toothpaste.)

Yes, this is a story which could benefit from a female critical perspective. A previous one such received invaluable assistance and correction of errors.

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Isto » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:27 am

Ishmael wrote:Here is a serious question.

When you have a great story, how do you know if you've written it down?

Attempted clarification:
When I read the words of this great story I've written, it reads like a great story, but since I had clear ideas in my head to begin with, how do I know if the words I've written down convey those ideas or whether my feeling that it's a great story results from the ideas and not what I wrote on the page?

If anyone has the faintest idea what I'm talking about I should welcome thoughts on the problem.


I know exactly what you mean. I just blew up the third chapter of my novel for that very reason. I swear I'd read it a dozen times before I realized I was referencing a situation I'd never previously mentioned. I have until Oct 30th to resolve it or miss an important deadline/opportunity. Walking away does help. Having readers unfamiliar with the story helps even more. If you're still needing a reader after that, I'd be happy for a swap.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Ishmael » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:46 am

Excellent, I would appreciate that, thank you.

I cannot leave this one alone at the moment. Despite my resolution to start something else, (which I did,) I've gone back to this and fiddled with nits on a daily basis, as well as identifying one quite significant hole in the logic since I sent it to alpha. This was a case of exactly what I said above. I knew why the protagonist behaved in a certain way but I'd accidentally concealed this knowledge from the reader.

Actually my last exchange came back with another very similar issue; as soon as I put the explanatory bits in the whole story improved hugely - unfortunately I'd already blown a submission to one of my key target markets by then.

I really must get on with something else because the results aren't due before the spring and I really can't be wound up about this story for that long!
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Dr.ForumStalker » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:45 am

This is a question directed at those forumites who are statistically inclined. I have just completed my rewrite of my 3rd quarter HM story with every intension of submitting it elsewhere, when I thought "Why, not resubmit it to the contest?". At this stage I think I can assume that Dave at least read the story all the way through, but other than this I can only hope that I corrected those parts that caused him to issue the rejection. Does anyone have any idea how successful resubmissions are?
That being said, I also think that the story could use a fresh set of eyes, before I actually submit. It is 3200 words and in the horror genre. I would be glad to return the favor.

John
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby s_c_baker » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:15 am

I think there are too many variables to do any sort of statistical analysis, although I do know of at least one story that was revised from a form rejection into a winner. (My own revisions received either the same score--an HM--or a form rejection.)

Depends on what you changed, how effectively you changed it, whether the reason for rejection was structural or topic-related, whether two dozen other people submit stories on a similar theme... etc., etc., etc.

The only way to know for sure is to resubmit it. :)
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Dr.ForumStalker » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:05 am

Thanks Stewart! That is basically the answer that I expected. I do plan on resubmitting, just hated the thought of getting anything less than an HM. wotf017
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby kentagions » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:58 am

For another data point about re-submissions.
Two of my three Rs are for the same story. It is tight, full of vivid imagery, and entertained several friends and other readers (otherwise I would not have re-subbed). The POV character is a non-anthropoid alien (insectoid). The setting is on her steamy jungle world, replete with very strange flora and fauna. The story is of the chain of events in the POVs life, set in motion by the crash landing of a human spacecraft.

Possible reasons for rejection:
1. Too alien. I created an alien culture that did things for alien reasons on an alien world. They had alien concepts and alien rules. They communicated with music and color (Think cuttlefish synthesizer). I tried to make it accessible, but alienness is a likely flaw.

2. No human characters excepting tertiary characters seen from afar.

2.1. Lack of human relevant stakes. Yes, there are high stakes, but alien stakes might not stir an audience.

3. Two tricks that the aliens can do might tip the plausibility scales too far to the negative.

4. (Nitpicking on myself) The first version required more direction in the opening.

5. Of course, there is always the possibility that both versions are crap, but I will vehemently deny having ever written this.

No advice, just data on a story that received two rejections from Dave. I hope it helps someone.
Kent

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby KD Julicher » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:37 am

Dr.ForumStalker wrote:This is a question directed at those forumites who are statistically inclined. I have just completed my rewrite of my 3rd quarter HM story with every intension of submitting it elsewhere, when I thought "Why, not resubmit it to the contest?". At this stage I think I can assume that Dave at least read the story all the way through, but other than this I can only hope that I corrected those parts that caused him to issue the rejection. Does anyone have any idea how successful resubmissions are?
That being said, I also think that the story could use a fresh set of eyes, before I actually submit. It is 3200 words and in the horror genre. I would be glad to return the favor.

John



At the very least I'd wait a few quarters before resubmitting. I'd be afraid of making him say "Hmm, this feels like something I've read before" and tossing it for just that reason.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby bobsandiego » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:29 am

kentagions wrote:For another data point about re-submissions.
Two of my three Rs are for the same story. It is tight, full of vivid imagery, and entertained several friends and other readers (otherwise I would not have re-subbed). The POV character is a non-anthropoid alien (insectoid). The setting is on her steamy jungle world, replete with very strange flora and fauna. The story is of the chain of events in the POVs life, set in motion by the crash landing of a human spacecraft.

Possible reasons for rejection:
1. Too alien. I created an alien culture that did things for alien reasons on an alien world. They had alien concepts and alien rules. They communicated with music and color (Think cuttlefish synthesizer). I tried to make it accessible, but alienness is a likely flaw.

2. No human characters excepting tertiary characters seen from afar.

2.1. Lack of human relevant stakes. Yes, there are high stakes, but alien stakes might not stir an audience.

3. Two tricks that the aliens can do might tip the plausibility scales too far to the negative.

4. (Nitpicking on myself) The first version required more direction in the opening.

5. Of course, there is always the possibility that both versions are crap, but I will vehemently deny having ever written this.

No advice, just data on a story that received two rejections from Dave. I hope it helps someone.
Kent


And Dave just might not like it, but others may or may even love it.
An R by itself tells us nothing, except that it didn't work for Dave. R's from Dave have gone on to sell in nice markets. My advice is don;t bother with the resubmit.
Send the piece to a new editor and write a new piece for Dave.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Dr.ForumStalker » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:04 pm

Thanks everyone for the info/advice. I will now throw it all into the blender of my mind and see what comes out.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby amoskalik » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:19 pm

Dr.ForumStalker wrote:This is a question directed at those forumites who are statistically inclined. I have just completed my rewrite of my 3rd quarter HM story with every intension of submitting it elsewhere, when I thought "Why, not resubmit it to the contest?". At this stage I think I can assume that Dave at least read the story all the way through, but other than this I can only hope that I corrected those parts that caused him to issue the rejection. Does anyone have any idea how successful resubmissions are?
That being said, I also think that the story could use a fresh set of eyes, before I actually submit. It is 3200 words and in the horror genre. I would be glad to return the favor.

John


I resubmitted an HM story a year later. I tightened it up, improved the beginning a little, improved the ending a lot. It received a prompt R for the second submission. Of course I don't know why, but I like to think positive so I assume Dave thought, "Oh yeah I remember this one. Not bad but it won't be a finalist and who needs two HMs for the same story? I'll just reject it now so the author can submit it elsewhere all the sooner." Which is just what I did. I haven't sold it yet, but it's gotten through the slush pile at a number of places. Just a matter of time.

Anyway, I only resubmitted this story because I didn't have anything else at the time. If I had it to do over, I would have submitted it elsewhere and skipped that quarter.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Imagination Vortex » Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:03 pm

Same here - I submitted an old HM and fixed it up only to have it recieve an R. It had been quite a while since I had submitted it so not sure if Dave would have remembered it, but perhaps his tastes had changed from the first time he read it. It was the first quarter he started judging so perhaps he perfected his critiquing criteria and what he once thought was acceptable was now rejection quality. Guess there is no way to know. On a good note though I did submit an R once in the very next quarter after I fixed it up and it recieved an HM. Not enough time for him to forgotten about it, so he might have remembered and given it a second chance when he saw the improvements. So it can go either way.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby dr-phil » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:50 pm

I've certainly resubmitted H-Ms and they've gone on to get Finalists.

But... we're talking about serious revisions. And time...

• 53 • Writers of the Future Quarterly Submissions 1 July - 30 September 2004
FOURTH QUARTER XXIst Contest
A Man in the Moon Version 1.54.8 / 10,890 words [Word 95 count]
Quarter Finalist no 51 (15-32-4) (30 December 2004)

• 143 • Writers of the Future Quarterly Submissions 1 April - 30 June 2007
THIRD QUARTER XXIVth Contest
A Man in the Moon Version 1.60.14 / 14,151 words [Word 95]
Finalist In Progress (05 September 2007 • Phone Call) • One of EIGHT Finalists, still judging
Finalist no 161 (40-115-6) (06 November 2007 • Web) • No Prize, but get published?
Accepted no 161 (40-115-6) (05 January 2008 • Phone) • Will Be Published In 24th Anthology

• 73 • Writers of the Future Quarterly Submissions 1 July - 30 September 2005
FOURTH QUARTER XXIInd Contest
The Moons of Mercury Version 1.07.7 / 7767 words [Word 95 count]
Quarter Finalist no 77 (22-50-5) (30 December 2005)

• 122 • Writers of the Future Quarterly Submissions 1 October - 31 December 2006
FIRST QUARTER XXIVth Contest
The Moons of Mercury Version 2.01.11 / 10,506 words [Word 95]
Finalist In Progress (20 April 2007 • E-mail) • Expect Prize Results in 2-3 Weeks
Finalist no 134 (33-95-6) (30 May 2007 • Web) • No Prize, but get published?
Declined no 134 (33-95-6) (05 January 2008 • Phone) • No Publication, Other Finalist Accepted

Yes -- I lost to myself. (grin)

But there were years and thousands of words between these entries.

Just my experience...

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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Dustin Adams » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:49 am

Dr. Phil,
That looks like some serious record keeping. Awesome.

I've heard tale of someone who once accidentally submitted the same story two quarters in a row.
Two HMs.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby MattDovey » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:12 am

Dustin Adams wrote:I've heard tale of someone who once accidentally submitted the same story two quarters in a row.
Two HMs.


Well at least that proves the judging is consistent...
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby s_c_baker » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:42 am

Yes -- I lost to myself. (grin)


Ha!
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Jeffrey » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:00 am

Has anyone submitted yet to this quarter? I just tried this morning and got this:

This email address already exists in our system. Please login to access your application.


I submitted for V32 Q4, so I assume this is some hiccup. But I've never had an issue before having more than one story in for different quarters.
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Re: Jibber Jabber - Q1 - Volume 33

Postby Ishmael » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:59 am

Sorry, mine's still work in progress. Did you try logging in using your old password? If it's still showing your Q4 and you already have a result for that then I'd be inclined to email Joni for clarification.
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