If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Open topics on the Contest itself, to include results-watch threads and other items of note.
Liverloin
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If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Liverloin » Sat May 20, 2017 12:39 pm

So, I'm new to writing in English but somehow I got lucky and all three shorts I submitted were published. Two professional sales (Strange Horizons, and Pseudopod - just sold today actually), and one semi-professional sale (Solarcide, pretty nice magazine).

I'm trying my luck with WOTF, but hypothetically what happens if, say, I squeeze my story in time for June's deadline but sell two shorts in July to professional publications? Do I get disqualified?

Bonus question deleted, as it could potentially help identify my story and disqualify me.

(Sorry for any spelling/grammar mistakes, I'm in a noisy place).
Last edited by Liverloin on Sat May 20, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Jeremyteg » Sat May 20, 2017 1:13 pm

Based on the rules as written, you are disqualified from entering after your fourth professional short story sale. If you make a fourth sale while waiting for results, your current entry still qualifies, but you will be disqualified from entering again.

Liverloin
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Liverloin » Sat May 20, 2017 1:17 pm

Just as I thought, just wanted to make sure. Thanks, man!

EDIT: Also, congrats on getting accepted in Beneath Ceaseless Skies. I love that magazine.

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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Jeremyteg » Sat May 20, 2017 1:22 pm

You're welcome! And thanks wotf007. BCS is probably my favorite short fiction magazine right now, so I'm pretty excited. Congrats on your successes as well!

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disgruntledpeony
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby disgruntledpeony » Sat May 20, 2017 1:24 pm

I can't tell you whether that idea is taboo or not because I don't know. HOWEVER, I recommend editing your post to remove the information about your story because contest entries are done anonymously and posting any identifying details about it on this forum could potentially disqualify it.

Also, congrats on the sales! wotf007 wotf010
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Liverloin
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Liverloin » Sat May 20, 2017 1:25 pm

Oh, damn. Didn't think of that. In fact, huh, I think I'll have to change my username. I hope that's possible?

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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Jeremyteg » Sat May 20, 2017 1:26 pm

disgruntledpeony wrote:I can't tell you whether that idea is taboo or not because I don't know. HOWEVER, I recommend editing your post to remove the information about your story because contest entries are done anonymously and posting any identifying details about it on this forum could potentially disqualify it.


This is good advice.

Liverloin
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Liverloin » Sat May 20, 2017 1:30 pm

Well, I googled around a bit and I think I'll have to ask a mod or admin to delete this thread and account, as you can't retroactively change it and it's the name of my protagonist (which I'm really not keen on changing).

Talk about making an entrance!

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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby kentagions » Sat May 20, 2017 2:29 pm

Thought I'd point this out.

To quote the contest rules:
5. The Contest is open only to those who have not professionally published a novel or short novel, or more than one novelette, or more than three short stories, in any medium. Professional publication is deemed to be payment of at least six cents per word, and at least 5,000 copies, or 5,000 hits.


"six cents per word, and at least"

Both six cents per word, and copies (over 4,999 copies or 4,999 hits) must be satisfied for a sale to qualify as professional.

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disgruntledpeony
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby disgruntledpeony » Sat May 20, 2017 4:54 pm

Liverloin wrote:Well, I googled around a bit and I think I'll have to ask a mod or admin to delete this thread and account, as you can't retroactively change it and it's the name of my protagonist (which I'm really not keen on changing).

Talk about making an entrance!

Now that you edited your post, you should be fine.
If a person offend you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measures; simply watch your chance and hit him with a brick. ~ Mark Twain
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2017: SHM, n/a, F

hlreinhold
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby hlreinhold » Sun May 21, 2017 12:19 am

Liverloin wrote:Well, I googled around a bit and I think I'll have to ask a mod or admin to delete this thread and account, as you can't retroactively change it and it's the name of my protagonist (which I'm really not keen on changing).

Talk about making an entrance!


On the other hand, none of us (I think) knows your real name or any other details about you, so maybe you still count as 'anonymous', at least for now? I wouldn't worry too much.
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby historythatneverwas » Wed May 24, 2017 9:36 am

kentagions wrote:Thought I'd point this out.

To quote the contest rules:
5. The Contest is open only to those who have not professionally published a novel or short novel, or more than one novelette, or more than three short stories, in any medium. Professional publication is deemed to be payment of at least six cents per word, and at least 5,000 copies, or 5,000 hits.


"six cents per word, and at least"

Both six cents per word, and copies (over 4,999 copies or 4,999 hits) must be satisfied for a sale to qualify as professional.


I wonder where to find out about copies/hits for stuff that's been published. I was personally figuring that my one SFWA-qualifying sale counted as a pro pub, but I don't know how many copies of the anthology it will be in get printed, as it's from a small press.
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Jeremyteg » Wed May 24, 2017 10:05 am

historythatneverwas wrote:
kentagions wrote:Thought I'd point this out.

To quote the contest rules:
5. The Contest is open only to those who have not professionally published a novel or short novel, or more than one novelette, or more than three short stories, in any medium. Professional publication is deemed to be payment of at least six cents per word, and at least 5,000 copies, or 5,000 hits.


"six cents per word, and at least"

Both six cents per word, and copies (over 4,999 copies or 4,999 hits) must be satisfied for a sale to qualify as professional.


I wonder where to find out about copies/hits for stuff that's been published. I was personally figuring that my one SFWA-qualifying sale counted as a pro pub, but I don't know how many copies of the anthology it will be in get printed, as it's from a small press.


My instinct would be to query the anthology editor for that information.

Liverloin
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Liverloin » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:29 pm

Huh, dudes, anyone know of a way to delete my account? I've messaged the admins but I didn't get an answer. Sorry for the off-topic.

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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Jeremyteg » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:00 pm

I don't think it's possible. Best you can probably do is scrub all of your information from the site and create a new account.

Liverloin
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Liverloin » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:13 pm

Well, the name will still stay. But I guess if there's no information they won't care. I'll do that. Thanks mate!

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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby MattDovey » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:43 am

Just to add--I believe it's the fourth *publication* that disqualifies you, not the fourth sale. So if that fourth pro sale takes a year to come out, you get a whole extra year to submit :)
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KristyEmber
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby KristyEmber » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:58 am

I queried Joni on my 3rd sale; she said that I would be in eligible *upon publication* of my *3rd* SFWA qualified sale. Everyone told me on a previous thread that it should be interpreted as the 4th sale, but that is the message I got directly from the contest director, so make interpretations at your own risk.

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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Dustin Adams » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:23 am

5. The Contest is open only to those who have not professionally published a novel or short novel, or more than one novelette, or more than three short stories, in any medium. Professional publication is deemed to be payment of at least six cents per word, and at least 5,000 copies, or 5,000 hits.

Have not published more than three.
AKA
Have not published a fourth.

Translation. Can publish three. Not four.

We definitely need to get this cleared up.
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby KristyEmber » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:16 pm

Any ideas onto how? I am reluctant to email the contest director and suggest that she's wrong... But perhaps I could say there was a common interpretation on the boards that it is the fourth published Sfwa sale that disqualifies you, and ask for a blog post to clarify the situation for everyone?

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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby Dustin Adams » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:23 am

Kristy,

I'll e-mail her and report back.
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby MattDovey » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:53 am

Pretty sure Martin is the man to ask on this, as he was skirting ineligibility. I'll ping him on Facebook.
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby ThomasKCarpenter » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:49 am

KristyEmber wrote:Any ideas onto how? I am reluctant to email the contest director and suggest that she's wrong... But perhaps I could say there was a common interpretation on the boards that it is the fourth published Sfwa sale that disqualifies you, and ask for a blog post to clarify the situation for everyone?


Joni has clarified this many times. It's the FOURTH publication from a SFWA qualified market that disqualifies. I'll try to list out some of the other nuances that she's explained over the years in email, as I thought I was DQ'd on three seperate occasions only to find she had a loophole that kept me in. As always, if you feel like you're DQ'd then contact her and explain your sales and let her decide.

Key points to the rule (emphasis on the BOLD part)
* The FOURTH publication (rather than sale) disqualifies
* You can keep submitting up to the DAY OF publication of the fourth
* Must be a SFWA qualified market
* The contest says "novellette" but really they mean "novella" and it's based on the international word count which is 20,000+
* Self-publication doesn't really count, even if it's over 5,000 copies (keyword is "payment" which suggests that someone else has bought, rather than sales, yeah, I know, weird, but whenver I checked with her she told me I was still qualified)
* Flash fiction doesn't count (not sure the word count that qualifies flash, maybe 1000?)

I believe these are the major ones, though I'm probably missing one or two. Always, always, contact Joni if you're not sure.
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby MattDovey » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:37 pm

From Martin:

"More than 3." I confirmed that with Joni just last April. 4 > 3, but 3 is not more than 3.

Also keep in mind that the contest considers any story that's eligible for this contest (i.e., under 17,000 words) to be a short story when counting. When they discuss 2 short novels, they mean novellas.


Martin was entering for a long time, and had this down to a science. He always entered quarters early to make sure he was eligible. I am inclined to consider his word the Word of God, frankly :)

(this may or may not be related to the hypnotic powers of his laser kitty tie, mind you...)
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby MattDovey » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:40 pm

ThomasKCarpenter wrote:* Flash fiction doesn't count (not sure the word count that qualifies flash, maybe 1000?)


I've a feeling they count flash as "2000 words or less", y'know. Certainly 1500 or less.

The point is: WotF is set up as a contest for beginners because that's what LRH's will states. But it's in the contest's best interests to have the best possible calibre of entrants within that restriction--hence "more than three", "on publication", "current SFWA rate" even if you were paid 5cpw back when that was SFWA pro rate, "flash doesn't count"... it's about trying to keep you eligible for as long as possible. It's become a running joke that if you ask Joni if you're eligible then you're eligible, because she'll find a way in the rules to keep you in.
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Re: If I get a fourth professional sale while I'm waiting for the results, do I get disqualified?

Postby ThomasKCarpenter » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:42 pm

MattDovey wrote:It's become a running joke that if you ask Joni if you're eligible then you're eligible, because she'll find a way in the rules to keep you in.


Pretty much.
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