How Short Is Too Short?

[Chris533]

Any thoughts on how short would be too short for the contest? Any one know of any really short stories that have won? Say, about 2,000-3,000 words?

[J'nae Rae]

They don't list a minimum. But I would hazard a guess a drabble would be a no, flash would likely be a hard sell for winning. Good question as to what is the shortest story to win.

[Dustin Adams]

I believe KD Wentworth's story was the shortest win at 2k.

[amyhg]

I believe KD Wentworth's story was the shortest win at 2k.

Wow. I get the impression that you're the WOTF Anthology guru. Out of curiosity, how many volumes have you read?

[Jeremyteg]

I believe KD Wentworth's story was the shortest win at 2k.

Wow. I get the impression that you're the WOTF Anthology guru. Out of curiosity, how many volumes have you read?

Legend tells that Dustin was there at the dawn of WOTF, long before the first winners walked the earth. His knowledge is vast, his command of rules minutia and useful trivia infinite, and his wisdom as wide as the horizon. Verily, Dustin is the greatest sage among sages.




Or at least that's the impression I get from reading his posts on the forum

[Dustin Adams]

From the dawn of time we came, moving quietly, down through the centuries. No one has ever known we were among you... until now.

No, that's a different Highlander.

I understand Preston has read every word.
However, while I am close to completing my antho collection (still need that big table top volume) I am not the reader he is.
Scott Parkin may have read every word as well. He will be a coordinating judge someday, mark my words.

[MattDovey]

Daniel Davis' v31 story was short, only 2-3k, and RM Graves' Freebot in v32 was 2.5k, for more recent examples. I don't think you could get away with shorter than that, because Dave is a plot structure nerd, and flash is too short to really work with that.

[preston]

I'm pretty sure the shortest WOTF winning story is "The Disambiguation of Captain Shroud" by Gary Shockley. I don't have the book in front of me, but if I remember correctly, it's like two-three pages. It's definitely a flash piece. It won first place.
An even shorter flash story is a finalist called "Just Don't" by Eaolake Stobblehouse. It's one page.
Both are in volume 5. BTW, Shockley's story also one the Gold Award, so yeah...flash might be a hard sell, but done right it can do very well. It did for Gary Shockley!

[KathiLS]

Daniel Davis' v31 story was short, only 2-3k, and RM Graves' Freebot in v32 was 2.5k, for more recent examples. I don't think you could get away with shorter than that, because Dave is a plot structure nerd, and flash is too short to really work with that.

That doesn't bode well for me this quarter.

[LaurieG]

Like Preston said, the shortest was "Just Don't". One short page. I still can't figure out why it won, because the story itself made no sense.

[KathiLS]

Well, then, here's to keeping my fingers crossed. I look forward to a September of twitching.

[Chris533]

Interesting - but - my two page story turned into 20!

[disgruntledpeony]

Interesting - but - my two page story turned into 20!

Yeah, that'll happen.

[morganb]

My Q4 submission started out as a 1,500 word flash story. After it went through Critters, the message I got was that it needed a lot more fleshing out. So after several rewrites, it morphed into 7,000 words. Hope I did it enough justice and didn't just end up blowing lots of hot air into a small balloon.


~Morgan

[KD Julicher]

I'm pretty sure the shortest WOTF winning story is "The Disambiguation of Captain Shroud" by Gary Shockley. I don't have the book in front of me, but if I remember correctly, it's like two-three pages. It's definitely a flash piece. It won first place.
An even shorter flash story is a finalist called "Just Don't" by Eaolake Stobblehouse. It's one page.
Both are in volume 5. BTW, Shockley's story also one the Gold Award, so yeah...flash might be a hard sell, but done right it can do very well. It did for Gary Shockley!

I will urge anyone who wants to win the contest now to avoid thinking too much about what won the contest thirty years ago. I'm in awe of your knowledge, Preston, and totally not dissing your comment - but if one wishes to win the contest now, read maybe the last 5-7 years of anthologies and read Dave's tips. You can learn what he's looking for pretty easily, and if it suits your own style as a writer then writing to get past him will help you level up. I know my writing has improved immensely since first entering the contest. Even since my first finalist piece three years ago!

But there have definitely been some short winners and finalists in recent volumes. Write the story the way it needs to be written. All else is details.

[preston]

I'm pretty sure the shortest WOTF winning story is "The Disambiguation of Captain Shroud" by Gary Shockley. I don't have the book in front of me, but if I remember correctly, it's like two-three pages. It's definitely a flash piece. It won first place.
An even shorter flash story is a finalist called "Just Don't" by Eaolake Stobblehouse. It's one page.
Both are in volume 5. BTW, Shockley's story also one the Gold Award, so yeah...flash might be a hard sell, but done right it can do very well. It did for Gary Shockley!

I will urge anyone who wants to win the contest now to avoid thinking too much about what won the contest thirty years ago. I'm in awe of your knowledge, Preston, and totally not dissing your comment - but if one wishes to win the contest now, read maybe the last 5-7 years of anthologies and read Dave's tips. You can learn what he's looking for pretty easily, and if it suits your own style as a writer then writing to get past him will help you level up. I know my writing has improved immensely since first entering the contest. Even since my first finalist piece three years ago!

But there have definitely been some short winners and finalists in recent volumes. Write the story the way it needs to be written. All else is details.

Thanks, KD! I totally agree. A story has its own organic length. I try to let my own stories dictate their length, though I admit, due to market restrictions, I do try to reign in the word count. As far as the contest, it makes total sense that the later volumes are a better indication of the types of stories that win, as opposed to the earlier volumes. One trend I have noticed is that recently, shorter stories have been winning more often than they used to. Another trend: there are a lot more stories for the judge to choose from. It's interesting how the contest has evolved.

[Katie]

My story is has 10 chapters is that too long?

[jficke13]

My story is has 10 chapters is that too long?

If you're under the word count you're good. People have won with short short stories ("The God Whisperer" from few years ago was short, mine is about 2,000 words), people have won with submissions that are right up on the upper limit.

So beyond be under the word count all I've got for you is:

[RSchibler]

The contest (and most/all other markets) goes by word count not page number or other measures of length. I saw a thread recently where Dave Farland said he goes by word processor word count as well. 17k or under. Good luck!

[chuckt]

So I became very interested in this topic because I have a short one that I like a lot. I'm leaning toward making it my Q3. 1500 words. I'm sure I could get it to 2000 without taking anything away from the tale. In fact, it probably needs another "fail cycle" so I prob can get it to 2.5.

I note above that there were a couple of 2.5K winners recently. Add to that V35's "Are You the Life of the Party," which, based on my rough estimate comes in just below 2K. In fact, my guesstimate has it close to 1800. And I count a few more stories in V35 close to the 3K mark.

[DaneCurley]

Good is good.

[chuckt]

Good is good.

Totally agree. But it you can avoid violating an unwritten rule ... one less thing.

[Dustin Adams]

I believe there was a finalist a few quarters back that was flash fiction. 1k words. Dave felt it qualified for publication, so there is that, but it didn't make it past the judges. Still, I wouldn't go under 2k. That's my personal minimum and not anything official.

[Wulf Moon]

I will echo KD's comments, that was then, this is now. The contest has changed, writing has changed. I've heard comments some of the winning stories of the past would likely only make HM now. I agree. But good recall, Preston! You're a superfan!

Two words: world building.

Dave is big on this. He talks about it a lot. He mentions it in his critiques when you hit semifinalist. Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, and story does determine length. But knowing the coordinating judge prefers great world building, you decrease your odds with skimpy stories. They don't have enough meat on the bone. Dave wants stories he can sink his teeth into. So do a lot of readers.

But if you've got a flash that *feels* big world and powerful, and yet does all of that in small space, it's a good trick, and it might impress a judge. Just realize you're taking your chances, and the odds are against you.

All the beast,

Wulf Moon

[chuckt]

I'm over 2500 words now on my story. I think it's within Dave's guidelines. I even have three try/fail cycles! Heck, more than three depending on how those are counted. :) It may not be good enough otherwise but it was a step forward. A couple of you guys were a huge help reading it for me. Thanks.

[amoskalik]

FWIW, I got an HM on a story of 1900 words and an R on a story of 800 words. Putting length aside, I would say the 1900 word story was a better fit for WOTF and may be why it placed higher. Those are the only two I have entered with less than 6000 words and I only entered them because I had nothing else ready at the time.

[Eolake Stobblehouse]

Hi folks,
I found this thread while searching for Gary’s story.
I was in volume five. I believe I still have the shortest story (though it was a finalist). It was 184 words.

The Disambiguation Of Captain Shroud was brilliant.

Eolake Stobblehouse

Http://eolake.com

[Eolake Stobblehouse]

. One trend I have noticed is that recently, shorter stories have been winning more often than they used to. Another trend: there are a lot more stories for the judge to choose from. It's interesting how the contest has evolved.

Preston, I’m curious, how do you know there are more stories submitted? When I was there, that was a tightly controlled secret.

(Oh, are Simone Welsh and Rachel still working with the contest?)

Eolake Stobblehouse

Eolake.com

[preston]

. One trend I have noticed is that recently, shorter stories have been winning more often than they used to. Another trend: there are a lot more stories for the judge to choose from. It's interesting how the contest has evolved.

Preston, I’m curious, how do you know there are more stories submitted? When I was there, that was a tightly controlled secret.

(Oh, are Simone Welsh and Rachel still working with the contest?)

Eolake Stobblehouse

Eolake.com

Yeah, the exact number of entries is still unknown. On the blog and on press releases, they've said "a few thousand" per quarter. Most recently, they've twice said "several thousand." They have also said that each year they have received more entries than the year before that. They've made no secret that each year brings "a record number of entries" and that the contest has been "growing." So while the exact number of entries has not been revealed, they have said that it keeps getting bigger and bigger. My best estimate is somewhere between four and seven thousand per quarter, mainly because some major SF magazines have revealed that they receive about 1000 submissions per month, which would translate to 3 thousand for contest (assuming the number of entries to the contest is similar. And since the words "several thousand" has been used to describe the number of quarter entries. To me "several" means more than 3000, or they would just say "a few thousand." OF course, this is all speculation. What is not speculative, however, is that each year brings a record number of entries. This has been said many times.

[preston]

Hi folks,
I found this thread while searching for Gary’s story.
I was in volume five. I believe I still have the shortest story (though it was a finalist). It was 184 words.

The Disambiguation Of Captain Shroud was brilliant.

Eolake Stobblehouse

Http://eolake.com

Loved your story, "Just Don't," by the way. I believe that was the title. And yes, your story is still the shortest ever published in any volume. I've got them all.