Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Open topics on the Contest itself, to include results-watch threads and other items of note.
LDWriter2
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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby LDWriter2 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:37 pm

I am out completely again a complete rejection.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby LDWriter2 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:39 pm

Congrats to those who have HMs SHMs and semi-finalists.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby disgruntledpeony » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:36 pm

Congratulations, michaeljwyantjr and WriterGirl0426! wotf007 wotf010 wotf041 That's wonderful news.
If a person offend you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measures; simply watch your chance and hit him with a brick. ~ Mark Twain

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby czing » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:47 pm

WriterGirl that is great. I wouldn't be getting any sleep either if that was me :)
HM - Q1,Q3 v 36
R - Q4 v 36

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Helge Mahrt » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:46 am

Awesome! Congrats everyone. I’m on vacation with limited availability to post, so I can’t congratulate you individually. So great to see so many HMs, SHMs and even SFs in the forum!! Super motivating wotf024
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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby RSchibler » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:36 am

Congratulations to all those who placed! For those who did not - don't base your whole value as a writer on the results of this contest. This is a market like any other, and your results are the judgment of one, maybe two, people. Don't base the entire value of your story, or your ability, on their judgment. WotF is a good thing, but take those rejections and HMs and SEND THEM OUT. If I had never done that, I wouldn't have gotten personal rejections from Charlie Finlay, or come *this* close to selling a story to PodCastle. And because I did, I know it's not just Dave Farland who thinks I might be okay at this. WotF is good, but it's not the only game in town. You might be writing stuff that doesn't click with him, and another editor might love your story. Never Give Up, Never Surrender!
V34: R, HM, R
V35: HM, R, R, HM
V36: R, HM, HM, SHM

ALWAYS available for critiques. PM me.

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby WriterGirl0426 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:16 am

RSchibler wrote:Congratulations to all those who placed! For those who did not - don't base your whole value as a writer on the results of this contest. This is a market like any other, and your results are the judgment of one, maybe two, people. Don't base the entire value of your story, or your ability, on their judgment. WotF is a good thing, but take those rejections and HMs and SEND THEM OUT. If I had never done that, I wouldn't have gotten personal rejections from Charlie Finlay, or come *this* close to selling a story to PodCastle. And because I did, I know it's not just Dave Farland who thinks I might be okay at this. WotF is good, but it's not the only game in town. You might be writing stuff that doesn't click with him, and another editor might love your story. Never Give Up, Never Surrender!


I completely agree!
And if it helps to motivate anyone, those R's you see in my signature line? One of those is for a short story releasing in August or September with a publisher who likes it so much they've asked me to turn it into a mini-series. So yeah, getting rejected hurts, but does NOT mean the story isn't good or publishable. I learned some of my most eye-opening writing skills from feedback on contests I lost. Seriously. I could pull it up and show you it's so true. And it still took working with an editor to truly understand what passive voice is in all its horrible I-do-it-all-over-the-place glory.

Like Wulf is always telling everyone - keep writing and putting out new stuff. It's the best thing you can do.

We can do it!!! wotf024 wotf024 wotf024
Tracy

V34 Q3: R
V34 Q4: R
V35 Q1: R
V36 Q1: SHM
V36 Q2: SF!!! wotf015

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WriterGirl0426
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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby WriterGirl0426 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:22 am

Thanks so much, disgruntledpeony and czing. wotf007
Tracy

V34 Q3: R
V34 Q4: R
V35 Q1: R
V36 Q1: SHM
V36 Q2: SF!!! wotf015

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Corbin Maxwell » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:49 am

Think of your rejections as acceptance into an elite world that few dare to enter. It takes courage to write. To lay your hopes and dreams upon the surgeon’s table. To expose your soul to he who commands the death toll.
For there is death in the sound of it, and a glamorous fatality, like silver pennons downrushing at sunset, or a dying fall of horns along the road to Ronceveaux.

The only easy day was yesterday.




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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby JVAshley » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:06 am

LittleRed wrote:Even better, I immediately sent it out to a comic fantasy anthology I've had my eye on for a while and got an acceptance today. Yahooey!


disgruntledpeony wrote:Congratulations, michaeljwyantjr and WriterGirl0426! wotf007 wotf010 wotf041 That's wonderful news.


wotf024 LittleRed, michaeljwyantjr and WriterGirl0426 - You are killing it!
1x SF
3x HM
2x R

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby storysinger » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:34 am

R for me.
HM-V32/Q3
HM-V36/Q4
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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Allen » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:46 am

I haven't heard anything yet. Makes me wonder if the judges even got my entry... Does anyone know if there's a way I could check...? Even a rejection is better than no response at all... Any help anyone can give me would be great. Thanks!!

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Corbin Maxwell » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:49 am

Allen wrote:I haven't heard anything yet. Makes me wonder if the judges even got my entry... Does anyone know if there's a way I could check...? Even a rejection is better than no response at all... Any help anyone can give me would be great. Thanks!!



If an it's online submission then you should've received an email. With a paper sub, you could email Joni and ask.
For there is death in the sound of it, and a glamorous fatality, like silver pennons downrushing at sunset, or a dying fall of horns along the road to Ronceveaux.

The only easy day was yesterday.




SF x 1
HM x 10

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Wulf Moon » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:13 am

Congratulations on Semifinalist, Michaeljwyantjr and WriterGirl0426! That means you were in the top 16 or so out of somewhere around 2000 entries for the quarter! From around the world! You should be very pleased indeed, it's a great sign you have the skills to write professionally, and to win this contest. Well done!

When you get the critique (it varies--sometimes they come with the email announcement, often later), pay close attention to it. David Farland knows his stuff, and his comments can help you turn that story into a sale elsewhere. I have a nice soon-to-be-announced sale of a Semifinalist that Dave critiqued, and I attribute that sale to his expert suggestions on what I needed to do to make the story acceptable to the current atmosphere in the marketplace. Dave has his finger on the pulse.

While I am here, I would also like to point out the caliber of writers we have in this forum. There is no other gathering place on the internet that consistently shows so many members winning this contest or getting award certificates. As it should be, but it's good to remember the best in up-and-coming speculative fiction writers are your fellow members right HERE beside you. Well done. Keep helping one another. Keep learning from one another.

Try to partner up with someone that has credits higher than you. Having a writing partner that knows what they are doing really helps. Plus, it's great to have a good friend that understands the beast!

And keep writing fresh stories!

Q4 IS UPON YOU!

All the beast,

Wulf Moon
Wulf Moon http://driftweave.com
Q4 Vol 35 "Super-Duper Moongirl..."
Critters Readers Award: #1, "War Dog," Best SF&F Short Story of 2018
NEW! "Weep No More..." DEEP MAGIC Fall 2019 http://amazon.com/author/wulfmoon

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Wulf Moon » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:28 am

RSchibler wrote:Congratulations to all those who placed! For those who did not - don't base your whole value as a writer on the results of this contest. This is a market like any other, and your results are the judgment of one, maybe two, people. Don't base the entire value of your story, or your ability, on their judgment. WotF is a good thing, but take those rejections and HMs and SEND THEM OUT. If I had never done that, I wouldn't have gotten personal rejections from Charlie Finlay, or come *this* close to selling a story to PodCastle. And because I did, I know it's not just Dave Farland who thinks I might be okay at this. WotF is good, but it's not the only game in town. You might be writing stuff that doesn't click with him, and another editor might love your story. Never Give Up, Never Surrender!


What Becky said.

This may come as a shocker, but an HM only guarantees that your first two pages passed the smell test, and showed merit. First reader Kary saw that you can write well, and that the story has potential, and sent it on to Dave. Dave could have looked at those same first two pages and said, "Yup, she can write well, but I hate zombie stories, and there's nothing new here. I'll give her an HM in the hopes she'll send me something fresh next quarter." BOOM. Your entire story was not read, and you're thinking it was and that it was found deficient. Fact is, that anthology calling for zombie stories? That editor could be tickled pink to get your story, ready to hand you a contract. But he'll never read it if you don't send it out.

Don't play Rejectomancy. Therein lies madness. Unless you get a critique from Dave, or have the judge personally talk to you after, there is no way to know why your story got rejected. Just send that story out to a targeted market.

And go write your next.

All the beast!

Wulf Moon
Wulf Moon http://driftweave.com
Q4 Vol 35 "Super-Duper Moongirl..."
Critters Readers Award: #1, "War Dog," Best SF&F Short Story of 2018
NEW! "Weep No More..." DEEP MAGIC Fall 2019 http://amazon.com/author/wulfmoon

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby chuckt » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:54 pm

Wulf Moon wrote:This may come as a shocker, but an HM only guarantees that your first two pages passed the smell test, and showed merit. First reader Kary saw that you can write well, and that the story has potential, and sent it on to Dave. Dave could have looked at those same first two pages and said, "Yup, she can write well, but I hate zombie stories, and there's nothing new here. I'll give her an HM in the hopes she'll send me something fresh next quarter." BOOM. Your entire story was not read, and you're thinking it was and that it was found deficient. Fact is, that anthology calling for zombie stories? That editor could be tickled pink to get your story, ready to hand you a contract. But he'll never read it if you don't send it out.



Wulf Moon


Cookie, having had enough of the cowboys' merriment, grabbed Tex's guitar mid-sonnet and smashed it against the rocks ringing the campfire. After kicking the remains into the fire, he harrumphed and swayed back to his bedroll. If anyone else had done that, they would have heard the slapping of leather and the thunder of some Navy sixes.
Last edited by chuckt on Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Wulf Moon » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:30 pm

chuckt wrote:
Wulf Moon wrote:This may come as a shocker, but an HM only guarantees that your first two pages passed the smell test, and showed merit. First reader Kary saw that you can write well, and that the story has potential, and sent it on to Dave. Dave could have looked at those same first two pages and said, "Yup, she can write well, but I hate zombie stories, and there's nothing new here. I'll give her an HM in the hopes she'll send me something fresh next quarter." BOOM. Your entire story was not read, and you're thinking it was and that it was found deficient. Fact is, that anthology calling for zombie stories? That editor could be tickled pink to get your story, ready to hand you a contract. But he'll never read it if you don't send it out.



Wulf Moon


Cookie, having had enough of the cowboys' merriment, grabbed Tex's guitar mid-sonnet and smashed it against the rocks around the fire. After kicking the remains into the fire, he harrumphed and swayed back to his bedroll. If anyone else had done that, they would have heard the slapping of leather and the thunder of some Navy sixes.


Heh. My favorite was the bucket one, Chuck. wotf001
Wulf Moon http://driftweave.com
Q4 Vol 35 "Super-Duper Moongirl..."
Critters Readers Award: #1, "War Dog," Best SF&F Short Story of 2018
NEW! "Weep No More..." DEEP MAGIC Fall 2019 http://amazon.com/author/wulfmoon

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby chuckt » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:40 pm

Don't pop any more bubbles for a while or the Cookie vignettes will probably get really bad. wotf001

But, to be serious, I'm sure your'e right.
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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Wulf Moon » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:03 pm

chuckt wrote:Don't pop any more bubbles for a while or the Cookie vignettes will probably get really bad. wotf001

But, to be serious, I'm sure your'e right.


Sorry, Cookie. I am right. wotf001

Like I said, don't read too much into WotF rejections, unless that rejection comes with a critique from Dave when you get semifinalist, because now you'll know why he rejected it. That's something you can accurately work with because you have a pro guide, instead of thinking your story must need a fix and you start tearing it apart without a clue as to why it was rejected. Remember Heinlein's rules. And if telling people to send their stories out instead of shoving them in a drawer because they didn't get Silver or higher is popping bubbles, here's pins for everyone!

Cheers!
Wulf Moon http://driftweave.com
Q4 Vol 35 "Super-Duper Moongirl..."
Critters Readers Award: #1, "War Dog," Best SF&F Short Story of 2018
NEW! "Weep No More..." DEEP MAGIC Fall 2019 http://amazon.com/author/wulfmoon

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby chuckt » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:57 pm

Oh I agree. By "bad" I meant horribly corny. Just funnin. I wasn't critiquing the advice which was, as usual, spot on. wotf007. I am following that advice--just waiting on a couple of markets to reopen for submissions.
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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Allen » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:22 am

Corbin Maxwell wrote:
Allen wrote:I haven't heard anything yet. Makes me wonder if the judges even got my entry... Does anyone know if there's a way I could check...? Even a rejection is better than no response at all... Any help anyone can give me would be great. Thanks!!



If an it's online submission then you should've received an email. With a paper sub, you could email Joni and ask.


Never got an email... I just got this web page that did little more than display the contents of the online application.

I emailed Joni, waiting on response. I hope the judges at least got it, even if they did reject it...

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Retropianoplayer » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:41 pm

I don't mean to sound like Father Time, but I'm forced to say: Everything has to be placed in perspective. As long as one has their health intact, and no medical issues, they are already "winning."

Also, there are different phases of "rejection." It's really no biggie to have someone read the first two pages of your manuscript, and do a hard pass. It's their opinion and/or their personal taste in what you've written. In my mind, it's the "minor leagues" of rejection.

Try cold-calling production companies (even with a California talent agent), and being asked two perpetual questions: "Just WHO are you anyway?" and "Are you represented by (screenwriting agency deliberately left blank)?"

Then either one or two responses: The Gatekeeper hangs up the phone, or "Sorry, we're only accepting submissions from the .......AGENCY IN HOLLYWOOD."

These type rejections are what I consider "major league" – your work is never accepted, you are not acknowledged, and it will NEVER be read. Not even the first two pages.

Insightful thoughts on a peaceful and serene Monday evening.

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby chuckt » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:06 pm

Whew. This thread needs a song and dance number. Or a video of puppies or something. :)
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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby disgruntledpeony » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:33 pm

chuckt wrote:Whew. This thread needs a song and dance number. Or a video of puppies or something. :)

wotf017

*takes deep breath*

wotf026 wotf049 wotf026 wotf049 wotf026 wotf049
If a person offend you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measures; simply watch your chance and hit him with a brick. ~ Mark Twain

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby chuckt » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:09 am

Ha ha Liz. But now I'm in the dumps. Got a form rejection just now on something I wrote specifically for a zine issue based on re-tellings of the Odyssey books. A little more painful than normal because the story was a rifle shot aimed only at this zine for this issue. Not sure where else to send it. Oh well. Gotta have a thick skin for this business. wotf007
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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby disgruntledpeony » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:37 am

chuckt wrote:Ha ha Liz. But now I'm in the dumps. Got a form rejection just now on something I wrote specifically for a zine issue based on re-tellings of the Odyssey books. A little more painful than normal because the story was a rifle shot aimed only at this zine for this issue. Not sure where else to send it. Oh well. Gotta have a thick skin for this business. wotf007

That sucks, Chuck. wotf030 wotf041 Since the story was for a specific zine, general recommendation is to let it rest for a few months because everyone else who got rejected will be sending those out for a little while. After that, you should be able to send it elsewhere with less worries. I would definitely recommend sending it other places after you let it rest for a bit, though (WotF included, if appropriate).
If a person offend you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measures; simply watch your chance and hit him with a brick. ~ Mark Twain

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby chuckt » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:52 am

disgruntledpeony wrote: Since the story was for a specific zine, general recommendation is to let it rest for a few months because everyone else who got rejected will be sending those out for a little while. After that, you should be able to send it elsewhere with less worries. I would definitely recommend sending it other places after you let it rest for a bit, though (WotF included, if appropriate).


Good advice. I didn't think of that. I'm guessing a respinning of one of the Odyssey books would not be a WotF story. I guess it is Fantasy but maybe not even that. Myth? Is that a genre?
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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby czing » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:45 pm

My opinion, for all its vast worth, is that all of those fairy tale and mythology retellings belong under the fantasy umbrella (although probably within a more specific sub-genre that I don't have a good name for).
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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Wulf Moon » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:55 pm

Sorry about the rejection, Chuck. It's a reality of writing we all have to work through and develop coping skills for. Even at our WotF workshop, two of our instructors were bemoaning recent rejections they had experienced, and these were novels by the best of the best with illustrious publishing histories!

Your story is fantasy. Anyone that takes fantasy should be a market for that story. Cosmic Shores has a myth/legend category as well. Send it out and "fohget aboud it." Best thing we can all do with rejection is send it out and write a fresh story. But you know this. : )

Even if that story doesn't sell, when you repeatedly hit an editor with stories that show promise, you get on their radar. They start watching you. I've known Dean Wesley Smith for over twenty years, and he has long talked about this. He repeated it again in the WotF podcast with Preston. Often, an editor wants to know you're really trying, and repeatedly sending them good stories proves this. If they buy your story and invest some precious 'zine space in you, they hope this won't be a one time deal. Every editor likes discovering a new writer that they believe has a career ahead of them. Editors like pointing at a successful writer and saying, "I discovered her!" In the painful process of panning through open submissions, you rejoice when you finally discover a nugget of gold.

So don't be afraid to send stories out. Mixing metaphors here, but a battering ram doesn't hit a gate once to bring a gate down. Normally it takes many tries.

All the beast!

Wulf Moon
Wulf Moon http://driftweave.com
Q4 Vol 35 "Super-Duper Moongirl..."
Critters Readers Award: #1, "War Dog," Best SF&F Short Story of 2018
NEW! "Weep No More..." DEEP MAGIC Fall 2019 http://amazon.com/author/wulfmoon

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Re: Discussion: Q2, Volume 36

Postby Michael Kingswood » Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:15 pm

Wulf Moon wrote:
RSchibler wrote:Congratulations to all those who placed! For those who did not - don't base your whole value as a writer on the results of this contest. This is a market like any other, and your results are the judgment of one, maybe two, people. Don't base the entire value of your story, or your ability, on their judgment. WotF is a good thing, but take those rejections and HMs and SEND THEM OUT. If I had never done that, I wouldn't have gotten personal rejections from Charlie Finlay, or come *this* close to selling a story to PodCastle. And because I did, I know it's not just Dave Farland who thinks I might be okay at this. WotF is good, but it's not the only game in town. You might be writing stuff that doesn't click with him, and another editor might love your story. Never Give Up, Never Surrender!


What Becky said.

This may come as a shocker, but an HM only guarantees that your first two pages passed the smell test, and showed merit. First reader Kary saw that you can write well, and that the story has potential, and sent it on to Dave. Dave could have looked at those same first two pages and said, "Yup, she can write well, but I hate zombie stories, and there's nothing new here. I'll give her an HM in the hopes she'll send me something fresh next quarter." BOOM. Your entire story was not read, and you're thinking it was and that it was found deficient. Fact is, that anthology calling for zombie stories? That editor could be tickled pink to get your story, ready to hand you a contract. But he'll never read it if you don't send it out.

Don't play Rejectomancy. Therein lies madness. Unless you get a critique from Dave, or have the judge personally talk to you after, there is no way to know why your story got rejected. Just send that story out to a targeted market.

And go write your next.

All the beast!

Wulf Moon


Hmm.

Could have sworn I've read Dave say - and heard him say in person a couple times - that if he gives an HM, he read the entire story.

*shrug*

I could be mis-remembering.

Regardless, still waiting to hear anything, myself. Congrats to all who got their results so far. As others have said, even an R is a success - it means you wrote, finished what you wrote, and put it on the market.

Now just remember rules 3 and 5: don't rewrite except to editorial demand, and keep it on the market until it sells.

Writers always seem to hate #3.

wotf011

V/R
Michael
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