Discussion: Q4 Volume 36

[chuckt]

and this is for posterity, so please be honest. (Bonus points if you know that line! :)

Not to 50!

[Wulf Moon]

and this is for posterity, so please be honest. (Bonus points if you know that line! :)

Not to 50!

[disgruntledpeony]

and this is for posterity, so please be honest. (Bonus points if you know that line! :)

Not to 50!

THANK YOU! I've been trying to place that quote since Wulf gave it, and the second reference keyed it in. I need to re-watch The Princess Bride, because it's clearly been too long. Or re-read it. The book is delightful.

[CCrawford]

and this is for posterity, so please be honest. (Bonus points if you know that line! :)

Not to 50!

THANK YOU! I've been trying to place that quote since Wulf gave it, and the second reference keyed it in. I need to re-watch The Princess Bride, because it's clearly been too long. Or re-read it. The book is delightful.

We just rewatched this movie with the kids the other night, and STILL I was sitting here going, "That sounds SO familiar..." Lol. I blame pregnancy brain.

[Wulf Moon]

and this is for posterity, so please be honest. (Bonus points if you know that line! :)

Not to 50!

THANK YOU! I've been trying to place that quote since Wulf gave it, and the second reference keyed it in. I need to re-watch The Princess Bride, because it's clearly been too long. Or re-read it. The book is delightful.

The book is delightful. Just don't be like younger me and go out looking for the original by S. Morgenstern.

Well played, William Goldman. Well played.

~Moon~

[SwiftPotato]

Not to 50!

THANK YOU! I've been trying to place that quote since Wulf gave it, and the second reference keyed it in. I need to re-watch The Princess Bride, because it's clearly been too long. Or re-read it. The book is delightful.

The book is delightful. Just don't be like younger me and go out looking for the original by S. Morgenstern.

Well played, William Goldman. Well played.

~Moon~

Wait. Oh my god. You too? I thought I was the only one. That is such a relief.

[Beth Powers]

I just looked back, and I guess I forgot to say that I submitted to Q4 on September 29th...just thought I'd better get that in before we get results or something


In 2017, my Q4 results arrived on November 6th, so we're already in the window of possibility!

[crlisle]

How do they tell you?

[disgruntledpeony]

How do they tell you?

Via e-mail, unless you're a finalist, in which case they call you.

[Wulf Moon]

How do they tell you?

Finalists get "The Call," which is Joni Labaqi listed on your caller ID as private caller asking, "Are you sitting down?" Rejections, HMs, and Silver HMs get notified by email, and the emails tend to come in waves over a few days. You'll know, because forumites will post here under the quarter (and many also report on the Submission Grinder). Lately, we've seen Semifinalists held back from being announced--their notification emails come later--presumably in case a Finalist is disqualified or withdraws their entry from the contest. WotF will then bump a Semifinalist into the vacant slot.

The eight Finalists are sent to a panel of four judges to be rated, and three Winners are chosen for the quarter. Results usually take a few weeks, although my quarter took exactly one week. Q4 is like that--there is much pressure to get things moving because there are hard deadlines approaching to get the book edited, proofed, published, and shipped to distributors before the gala event, where its release is first launched. Joni then calls the Winners first to let them know the good news, and then calls the other Finalists to let them know they didn't win, but still have a chance at being a published Finalist if WotF chooses to do so for that volume.

It's a good idea to listen to the WotF podcasts interviewing the Winners. You'll find the vast majority entered many times over many years before they won. It helps to view this contest as a marathon, not a sprint. For aspiring writers, this is very much like trying to win an Olympic gold, silver, or bronze. View it like that, train like that, dedicate yourself to becoming the very best at your craft, and good things can come your way.

All the best to one and all awaiting results!

[Henckel]

It helps to view this contest as a marathon, not a sprint.

Thanks for the summary Wulf. This sentence particulary resonated with me.

[crlisle]

How do they tell you?

(and many also report on the Submission Grinder).

It's a good idea to listen to the WotF podcasts interviewing the Winners.

Thank you for such a detailed answer.
What is the Submission Grinder?
I will definitely listen to the winner podcasts.

[RSchibler]

Thank you for such a detailed answer.
What is the Submission Grinder?
I will definitely listen to the winner podcasts.

The Grinder is a source for markets taking submissions - you can sort by length and genre and qualifications. Google “the submissions grinder” and browse around.

[czing]

Submission grinder https://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/

[crlisle]

Thank you! I see that it is similar to the Query Tracker
https://querytracker.net

[jbaugher001]

Chuckt wrote: "I didn't think about that. Thanks for another insight Wulf."

For you twitchers out there, here's another reason to twitch. When all the winners for the anthology are chosen, WotF sets up a private Facebook group account for the winners to get notifications and to teach them to start working as a team for their mutual success. A few of the WotF judges and moderators get invited to join as well, to help the winners with any contest questions, advice, and encouragement.

Last night, John Goodwin sent me that invite. The hall is still empty, so to speak, but it's been rented, and the guests are about to arrive...

Wulf, do you know if the rejections go out first or if the finalists are notified first? Maybe I should just let it be and wait but, while I haven't been the most regular submitter to the contest, I still get phantom twitches mid-november. This is my first time subbing since 2017, when I got notified of a rejection in January. I met one of the slush readers at World Fantasy Convention and she told me they're moving right along. Still, I'm impatient

[Wulf Moon]

Chuckt wrote: "I didn't think about that. Thanks for another insight Wulf."

For you twitchers out there, here's another reason to twitch. When all the winners for the anthology are chosen, WotF sets up a private Facebook group account for the winners to get notifications and to teach them to start working as a team for their mutual success. A few of the WotF judges and moderators get invited to join as well, to help the winners with any contest questions, advice, and encouragement.

Last night, John Goodwin sent me that invite. The hall is still empty, so to speak, but it's been rented, and the guests are about to arrive...

Wulf, do you know if the rejections go out first or if the finalists are notified first? Maybe I should just let it be and wait but, while I haven't been the most regular submitter to the contest, I still get phantom twitches mid-november. This is my first time subbing since 2017, when I got notified of a rejection in January. I met one of the slush readers at World Fantasy Convention and she told me they're moving right along. Still, I'm impatient

That reader you met at WFC is Kary English. She is known as WotF's first reader, the only one, and she has greater authority than slush readers in other venues. As to who gets notified first, I can only go by my quarter, Q4 in Volume 35. For mine, Joni pulled over on the side of the road and called me immediately when she was texted the list of finalists, and she was screaming with delight. She knew my name and how long I'd been entering this contest. She told me to tell no one, told me again I was first she had called, she couldn't even wait to get back to the office. She said when she got back to the office, she'd call the other finalists. Within a day or two, the HMs and SHM notices went out, and after a week went by, I was notified I had won. Shortly thereafter, maybe a few days, the semifinalists were notified.

So that's how it worked for my quarter. I also asked who my four final judges were. Tim Powers, Mike Resnick, David Farland, and Jody Lynn Nye. Joni Labaqi told me the judges NEVER agree on the finalist stories that should be in the anthology, she said she cannot even recall the last time that had happened. But she said they had all agreed on my story. And then she repeated it, "No, Moon, you don't understand. They NEVER agree, this just doesn't happen." Made me feel good about the strength of my story.

But that's a good lesson for all that have been at that level. With different judges, you'd likely have seen a different set of results. At that level, they are all professional stories, and it comes down to very fine items indeed. Some of those are personal taste, even taste in genre. Let's face it, in the end, judges are simply people, with their tastes in fiction just like you and I. If you make finalist, be sure to send those stories out to other markets.

As for twitching, it's best to fohgeddahboudit and write your next. But if my Q4 was any indication, in a few days you have my permission to start twitching.

All the beast,

Wulf Moon

[Henckel]

That's an amazing story Wulf!

I've been thinking a lot lately about Kary English and her part on the contest. To date, I've only received HMs.... So, I'm not sure how much (if any) of my story is ready by Dave.

So, what can you tell us about Kary? Personally, I'd like to write such a story that Kary sends it to Dave with a smiley face on the top of the page with the note "personal favorite".

Perhaps we should invite Kary to say a few words?

[jbaugher001]

That's an amazing story Wulf!

I've been thinking a lot lately about Kary English and her part on the contest. To date, I've only received HMs.... So, I'm not sure how much (if any) of my story is ready by Dave.

So, what can you tell us about Kary? Personally, I'd like to write such a story that Kary sends it to Dave with a smiley face on the top of the page with the note "personal favorite".

Perhaps we should invite Kary to say a few words?

If the person who I met was indeed Kary, i can't really tell you much about her. She was super nice. She was with one of the Wotf winners and I had mentioned to the person who won that I had a story in Q4 that was pending. Kary asked what it was about and she told me she remembered it and passed it on. It was really cool to see --i only explained for about a sentence before said she remembered it. Nice ego boost too, I guess.

As a former slush reader for Flash Fiction Online I can only speak to my experience. We looked for original voices and stories that were well written and grabbed us in the first few sentences. Oddly, there seems to be trends that cycle through the genre. I once rejected 10 "instruction manual stories" that detailed "how to set up your new human". There must have been a popular writers prompt or something that month.

Voice was always super important to me too. In essay writing we talk about "the authoritative tone" and something similar exists in stories. Does the author really dig into the grit of the characters? Do they reveal their mis-belief -- the internal obstacle that they have to overcome? Does that obstacle influence their perception of the world? If there was a superb character with a strong voice I'd say we bought the story 80% of the time even if the plot or concept was kinda basic. If there was a complex plot with a wooden character it was a much harder sell.

Thanks for coming to my ted tak

[SwiftPotato]

That's an amazing story Wulf!

I've been thinking a lot lately about Kary English and her part on the contest. To date, I've only received HMs.... So, I'm not sure how much (if any) of my story is ready by Dave.

So, what can you tell us about Kary? Personally, I'd like to write such a story that Kary sends it to Dave with a smiley face on the top of the page with the note "personal favorite".

Perhaps we should invite Kary to say a few words?

If the person who I met was indeed Kary, i can't really tell you much about her. She was super nice. She was with one of the Wotf winners and I had mentioned to the person who won that I had a story in Q4 that was pending. Kary asked what it was about and she told me she remembered it and passed it on. It was really cool to see --i only explained for about a sentence before said she remembered it. Nice ego boost too, I guess.

As a former slush reader for Flash Fiction Online I can only speak to my experience. We looked for original voices and stories that were well written and grabbed us in the first few sentences. Oddly, there seems to be trends that cycle through the genre. I once rejected 10 "instruction manual stories" that detailed "how to set up your new human". There must have been a popular writers prompt or something that month.

Voice was always super important to me too. In essay writing we talk about "the authoritative tone" and something similar exists in stories. Does the author really dig into the grit of the characters? Do they reveal their mis-belief -- the internal obstacle that they have to overcome? Does that obstacle influence their perception of the world? If there was a superb character with a strong voice I'd say we bought the story 80% of the time even if the plot or concept was kinda basic. If there was a complex plot with a wooden character it was a much harder sell.

Thanks for coming to my ted tak

Whoa, it must be cool to hear that your story was one that Kary remembered and passed to Dave! Good for you!!!

Thanks for sharing your experience with reading as well. Those are some great points to know and I'm happy to have heard (read?) your TED talk! I can see what you mean about not minding a more basic plot/concept in the face of an interesting character. As your average reader, I will definitely read further if the character or the voice sucks me in than if the plot is super cool but the main character is lackluster. Sure, maybe that magic system and the world around it are super cool, but what keeps me reading is why those things matter to the people who live in them.

[jbaugher001]

Whoa, it must be cool to hear that your story was one that Kary remembered and passed to Dave! Good for you!!!

Thanks for sharing your experience with reading as well. Those are some great points to know and I'm happy to have heard (read?) your TED talk! I can see what you mean about not minding a more basic plot/concept in the face of an interesting character. As your average reader, I will definitely read further if the character or the voice sucks me in than if the plot is super cool but the main character is lackluster. Sure, maybe that magic system and the world around it are super cool, but what keeps me reading is why those things matter to the people who live in them.

if i can make a recommendation: The Story Genius by Lisa Cron was excellent in making all that click for me

[SwiftPotato]

if i can make a recommendation: The Story Genius by Lisa Cron was excellent in making all that click for me

Recommendation very welcome - I will look that up. Thank you!

[Henckel]

Wow. Great information. Thanks everyone!!!!

I hereby declare abandonment of my previous story ideas for q4 for some new ideas with an "authoritative voice" ... and a few other enhancements.


On another note, I can see the value in reading slush. I've only had an opportunity to do this once for an anthology (which was published about a week ago). And I gained TONS of knowledge by seeing what ideas fell flat and what made mediocre ideas work. And what made great ideas fall flat.

[jbaugher001]

Wow. Great information. Thanks everyone!!!!

I hereby declare abandonment of my previous story ideas for q4 for some new ideas with an "authoritative voice" ... and a few other enhancements.


On another note, I can see the value in reading slush. I've only had an opportunity to do this once for an anthology (which was published about a week ago). And I gained TONS of knowledge by seeing what ideas fell flat and what made mediocre ideas work. And what made great ideas fall flat.

now that you've declared abandonment, you're going to win the entire contest. That's how it works, haha.

Slush is really helpful and it was a good experience, but it also was kind of demoralizing. There's always. more. to. read. I'm the type of person who gets overwhelmed by having 100 stories in the queue so it wasn't for me -- and it started taking away time from my writing. If you can get a regular gig going though, it's a good experience. The other side of that is book reviewing. A friend of mine does that and he says it gives him a good handle on the market. One of my writing mentors was a reviewer for PW, B&N and Kirkus and he's the most knowledgeable person I know about trends and what will sell (besides maybe the few agents I've met.)

[jbaugher001]

Also, for those of us twitching together: someone reported a rejection for q4 on 11/8 on submission grinder so, brace yourselves

[Henckel]

Also, for those of us twitching together: someone reported a rejection for q4 on 11/8 on submission grinder so, brace yourselves

"I just looked at Grinder. It appears that Q4 results for last year came on 14 and 15 November. I'm going to speculate that winners will be getting a call about now," Henckel said, twitching.

[jbaugher001]

Also, for those of us twitching together: someone reported a rejection for q4 on 11/8 on submission grinder so, brace yourselves

"I just looked at Grinder. It appears that Q4 results for last year came on 14 and 15 November. I'm going to speculate that winners will be getting a call about now," Henckel said, twitching.

big twitch.

[RSchibler]

Also, for those of us twitching together: someone reported a rejection for q4 on 11/8 on submission grinder so, brace yourselves

Interesting. I’m not seeing that on the grinder.

[officer]

Also, for those of us twitching together: someone reported a rejection for q4 on 11/8 on submission grinder so, brace yourselves

Interesting. I’m not seeing that on the grinder.

I suspect it's just an error, someone tracking a previous submission. I'm twitching, nevertheless.

Here's the link to "recent activity": https://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/ ... Activity/1

"89 day Rejection, Form from Writers of the Future Contest on Nov 8"

[RSchibler]

Oh I see it there now. It never popped up on my “your market responses” tab or I’d have been really twitching! Good luck to everyone.