Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Open topics on the Contest itself, to include results-watch threads and other items of note.
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emir007
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Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby emir007 » Fri May 22, 2020 8:42 am

Hi there, I'm confused about this rule: "The Contest is open only to those who have not professionally published a novel or short novel, or more than one novelette, or more than three short stories, in any medium. Professional publication is deemed to be payment of at least eight cents per word, and at least 5,000 copies, or 5,000 hits."

A short story of mine was published in an anthology but since there are so many writers, like every writer in the anthology, I donated the financial gain directly to a library and did not make any money. Also, Will my story, which I posted on the internet exceeding 5,000 hits, but never make any money, prevent me from participating? I am wondering am I eligible to submit?
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Dustin Adams
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Re: Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby Dustin Adams » Fri May 22, 2020 9:05 am

That is indeed a confusing item. We've found ourselves periodically confused by that as well.

I recommend gathering as much data as you can, more than you have here even, and e-mailing Joni, the contest admin. She would likely have to determine based on the copies/hits rule. Nowadays Bing bots can make up 5k hits. :(
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emir007
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Re: Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby emir007 » Fri May 22, 2020 9:12 am

Dustin Adams wrote:That is indeed a confusing item. We've found ourselves periodically confused by that as well.

I recommend gathering as much data as you can, more than you have here even, and e-mailing Joni, the contest admin. She would likely have to determine based on the copies/hits rule. Nowadays Bing bots can make up 5k hits. :(


Thank you!
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Wulf Moon
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Re: Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby Wulf Moon » Fri May 22, 2020 3:44 pm

emir007 wrote:Hi there, I'm confused about this rule: "The Contest is open only to those who have not professionally published a novel or short novel, or more than one novelette, or more than three short stories, in any medium. Professional publication is deemed to be payment of at least eight cents per word, and at least 5,000 copies, or 5,000 hits."

A short story of mine was published in an anthology but since there are so many writers, like every writer in the anthology, I donated the financial gain directly to a library and did not make any money. Also, Will my story, which I posted on the internet exceeding 5,000 hits, but never make any money, prevent me from participating? I am wondering am I eligible to submit?


So the question is: Did you get paid 8 cents per word AND was it published in a publication that had 5,000 copies distributed, or 5,000 views if it was online? You need both for it to count AS ONE PRO SALE. And it doesn't matter if you donated the money. If they paid 8 cents per word AND met the other qualifier, it was a pro sale. Posting it later to your website and getting 5,000 hits is irrelevant.

Even if this sale could be construed as a pro sale (and it sounds like it probably was not), you are still not disqualified. It's having professionally published "more than three short stories" that would disqualify you. "More than" and "published" being the definitive terms. So until the day your FOURTH story is professionally PUBLISHED, you are good to enter this amateur contest. You are not disqualified.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see any need to write to Joni. It's good to remember what a huge work load she carries.

Best,

Moon
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Re: Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby Dustin Adams » Fri May 22, 2020 4:28 pm

OK, well, not sure why I/some haven't seen it that way before, but the way it reads is 8c per word AND 5k.
So, 8c per word and 4k copies and you're good.

The length of a short story has been debated over the years as well, and the one thing we've pretty much found is that flash fiction is not a short story.
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Re: Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby emir007 » Sat May 23, 2020 6:56 am

Wulf Moon wrote:
emir007 wrote:Hi there, I'm confused about this rule: "The Contest is open only to those who have not professionally published a novel or short novel, or more than one novelette, or more than three short stories, in any medium. Professional publication is deemed to be payment of at least eight cents per word, and at least 5,000 copies, or 5,000 hits."

A short story of mine was published in an anthology but since there are so many writers, like every writer in the anthology, I donated the financial gain directly to a library and did not make any money. Also, Will my story, which I posted on the internet exceeding 5,000 hits, but never make any money, prevent me from participating? I am wondering am I eligible to submit?


So the question is: Did you get paid 8 cents per word AND was it published in a publication that had 5,000 copies distributed, or 5,000 views if it was online? You need both for it to count AS ONE PRO SALE. And it doesn't matter if you donated the money. If they paid 8 cents per word AND met the other qualifier, it was a pro sale. Posting it later to your website and getting 5,000 hits is irrelevant.

Even if this sale could be construed as a pro sale (and it sounds like it probably was not), you are still not disqualified. It's having professionally published "more than three short stories" that would disqualify you. "More than" and "published" being the definitive terms. So until the day your FOURTH story is professionally PUBLISHED, you are good to enter this amateur contest. You are not disqualified.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see any need to write to Joni. It's good to remember what a huge work load she carries.

Best,

Moon



Thank you for your answer. I did not get any pay per word for my published story. In addition, I had stories that I published on Wattpad years ago and exceeding five thousand views. I guess these are not seen as professional sales.
"A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities.” -JRR Tolkien

(2020) V37 Q3 – ?

Silverhair
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Re: Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby Silverhair » Wed May 27, 2020 10:59 am

I had a similar question, so thanks to all for clarifying.

My follow-up question:
I'm starting to submit seriously to pro markets (wish me luck!) and I was wondering when Rule #5 kicks in (should I be so lucky...).

What if: I submit a story to WOTF contest while, at the same time, submitting OTHER stories to pro markets. When I submitted to WOTF, I had no pro sales. If, at some point, 4 stories (again, the luck...) are accepted for pro rates and published - does that disqualify my prior WOTF entry?

I admit this is a pretty far-fetched scenario (we all like SF, right?), but at some point, at least some of us will make that 4th pro sale. The question is, does it disqualify a prior WOTF Contest entry or only entries made AFTER the date of that 4th pro sale?

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Re: Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby AlexH » Wed May 27, 2020 11:47 am

Silverhair wrote:I had a similar question, so thanks to all for clarifying.

My follow-up question:
I'm starting to submit seriously to pro markets (wish me luck!) and I was wondering when Rule #5 kicks in (should I be so lucky...).

What if: I submit a story to WOTF contest while, at the same time, submitting OTHER stories to pro markets. When I submitted to WOTF, I had no pro sales. If, at some point, 4 stories (again, the luck...) are accepted for pro rates and published - does that disqualify my prior WOTF entry?

I admit this is a pretty far-fetched scenario (we all like SF, right?), but at some point, at least some of us will make that 4th pro sale. The question is, does it disqualify a prior WOTF Contest entry or only entries made AFTER the date of that 4th pro sale?

I don't think it does, as I remember reading an author bio in WotF for whom that exact thing happened.
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Re: Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby KD Julicher » Wed May 27, 2020 11:56 am

Silverhair wrote:I had a similar question, so thanks to all for clarifying.

My follow-up question:
I'm starting to submit seriously to pro markets (wish me luck!) and I was wondering when Rule #5 kicks in (should I be so lucky...).

What if: I submit a story to WOTF contest while, at the same time, submitting OTHER stories to pro markets. When I submitted to WOTF, I had no pro sales. If, at some point, 4 stories (again, the luck...) are accepted for pro rates and published - does that disqualify my prior WOTF entry?

I admit this is a pretty far-fetched scenario (we all like SF, right?), but at some point, at least some of us will make that 4th pro sale. The question is, does it disqualify a prior WOTF Contest entry or only entries made AFTER the date of that 4th pro sale?



If you are eligible when you submit, you're fine! If you've made your fourth sale but it's not published, you're fine until the day of publication! Quite a few winners have been in that situation. We call it "Last Quarter Syndrome" when you know you're sending in your final story.
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Silverhair
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Re: Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby Silverhair » Wed May 27, 2020 12:58 pm

Thanks!

I thought that would likely be the case, but just wanted to check to be sure.

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Re: Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby Dustin Adams » Thu May 28, 2020 9:50 am

LQS!

I believe we're talking about Martin Shoemaker. If memory serves, he subbed many of his final entries on the first day of the quarter so that he would be in before his 4th pro story was published. When he finally did win, this happened. His story was submitted here, and his 4th pro was pubbed. Going by the rules, he was good, and I for one was happy to read his winning story. Especially given how much he gave to us and the contest over the years.
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Re: Quick question about the contest rule 5?

Postby storysinger » Thu May 28, 2020 10:58 am

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