Five Minute Rant

Specifics about craft, talent, technique, etc.
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Martin L. Shoemaker
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:26 pm

Annnnnnnnnnd a personal rejection from Analog.

Yes, it's double rant day!

RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT!
RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT!

Oh, well, off to Duotrope...
http://Shoemaker.Space
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WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT!
REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT!
Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience.
NNiNN

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:07 pm

Thought about placing this somewhere else but I recalled this thread before I could.



So as some of you probably know my Q3 story is at Universe Annex. Edith had suggestions which included doing away with a good portion of the beginning. That deserved a short rant but I made a version for her anyway. Of course further suggestions came my way, as expected but the thing that got me was what one other person said about the second version.

It had the potential for being a good story. He or she probably thought that would be encouragement but for me it wasn't. At this stage if a story only has potential than I blew it badly. Grrrr and Ugh.

Of course he or she isn't an editor so the comment didn't carry the weight it might have but still Grrrr and ugh again.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:59 pm

Back to ranting--------I was going to send in my Q3 story to ontheprimeses.com now that I'm finished with Universe Annex-it had the results I expected from Edith there-but I need to cut 2050 words. I was told it needs to be shorter anyway, but 2050 words???
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:55 pm

Kinda of surprised I'm the only one here.


But now that I am I'm not sure what to say. Said something like this before but I want to use caps and say, Dave what do you want??? You're too hard. But I know what he wants, someone with better writing-someone who better understands what he says he wants. I'm missing something-or just not getting it--big time, probably half a dozen things, and he won't say what it is. Not even in his tips.


Well, I guess that's less than five minutes worth there after all.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:51 pm

LDWriter2 wrote:Kinda of surprised I'm the only one here.


I'm here. And I hear ya. Yelling into the void and not getting even an echo back is plenty of reason to rant.
http://Shoemaker.Space
Other worlds from award-winning author Martin L. Shoemaker

WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT!
REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT!
Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience.
NNiNN

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Dustin Adams
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Dustin Adams » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:27 am

I'll join the rant.

I'm currently mired in my longest non-acceptance drought EVER - even longer than it took to get my first acceptance. I swear I'm improving, my readers keep saying, "This is the best story I've seen from you yet." which makes me feel awesome. (Thank you, readers!) But I still can't make any headway with the pubs. I can't even get personal rejections. And I'm on the front end of the rejection spectrum. Minimum days...

What's funny is, when I was getting acceptances elsewhere, I was getting rejections here.
Now I've gotten an HM and a semi, all since I've sold anything anywhere else.
If that trend continues, let the rejections continue. wotf011
2x Finalist
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:59 pm

Looks like my rant turned into a pity party.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby alpha » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:29 am

Why the HELL can't I get anyone to touch any of my stories? Do they have some kind of infectious disease? Why do these editors not recognize my stories as INCREDIBLE WORKS OF GREAT GENIUS?! These are really good stories! (I know because I've read every last one of them.)

I've collected tons of rejections. When they come in, I don't sweat it, and I move on. Every once in a while though, maybe a couple times a year, I step back and say, "What the hell, guys?"

Now, on to the next story.

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:23 am

alpha wrote:Why the HELL can't I get anyone to touch any of my stories? Do they have some kind of infectious disease? Why do these editors not recognize my stories as INCREDIBLE WORKS OF GREAT GENIUS?! These are really good stories! (I know because I've read every last one of them.)

I've collected tons of rejections. When they come in, I don't sweat it, and I move on. Every once in a while though, maybe a couple times a year, I step back and say, "What the hell, guys?"

Now, on to the next story.


Now there is the true spirit of the Five Minute Rant!
http://Shoemaker.Space
Other worlds from award-winning author Martin L. Shoemaker

WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT!
REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT!
Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience.
NNiNN

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ThomasKCarpenter
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby ThomasKCarpenter » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:35 am

alpha wrote:Why the HELL can't I get anyone to touch any of my stories? Do they have some kind of infectious disease? Why do these editors not recognize my stories as INCREDIBLE WORKS OF GREAT GENIUS?! These are really good stories! (I know because I've read every last one of them.)

I've collected tons of rejections. When they come in, I don't sweat it, and I move on. Every once in a while though, maybe a couple times a year, I step back and say, "What the hell, guys?"

Now, on to the next story.


And the best part is: Now, on to the next story.

Kuddos for being resilient!

wotf010
Thomas K Carpenter
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby hazlett » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:42 am

Dustin Adams wrote:I'll join the rant.

I'm currently mired in my longest non-acceptance drought EVER - even longer than it took to get my first acceptance. I swear I'm improving, my readers keep saying, "This is the best story I've seen from you yet." which makes me feel awesome. (Thank you, readers!) But I still can't make any headway with the pubs. I can't even get personal rejections. And I'm on the front end of the rejection spectrum. Minimum days...

What's funny is, when I was getting acceptances elsewhere, I was getting rejections here.
Now I've gotten an HM and a semi, all since I've sold anything anywhere else.
If that trend continues, let the rejections continue. wotf011


I resemble this remark! I have one story that received personal rejections from Analog and Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine (yes, both magazines liked it, but not enough to buy it), and another editor nearly bought it, but it just wasn't close enough to the theme. And lesser markets won't even touch it.

My personal rejections from semi-pro markets frequently said that my early stories suffered from being too long. Now I get personal rejections from pro markets that say my later stories are too short. But I'm still not selling a dang thing.

And don't even get me started on querying science fiction agents for my novel...Thank God I have a Plan B and Plan C.
Sean Patrick Hazlett
Winner (2nd Place)
HM x 8
Stories sold: 34 original stories and 6 reprints
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You can purchase a copy of my anthology at Amazon or Smashwords.

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:53 pm

alpha wrote:Why the HELL can't I get anyone to touch any of my stories? Do they have some kind of infectious disease? Why do these editors not recognize my stories as INCREDIBLE WORKS OF GREAT GENIUS?! These are really good stories! (I know because I've read every last one of them.)

I've collected tons of rejections. When they come in, I don't sweat it, and I move on. Every once in a while though, maybe a couple times a year, I step back and say, "What the hell, guys?"

Now, on to the next story.



I can say I resemble that remark for this one. With every statement.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby nainy » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:57 pm

My every day five minute rant is probably something that people can relate to.

Nine to six office work messes with my ability to write. All I do is get up, eat, work, travel home, then I have like one to one and a half hour window to write, then sleep. And when I finally sit before the computer, "close the door" (as S.K. says in his book), turn some music on and open up the WIP document, the first thing that comes to mind is, "God damn it - office again tomorrow". I still write, of course, because it's not an excuse - at least it never was an excuse to writers that broke through, starting in similar conditions. But I constantly feel like that takes away from the quality of my work.

Maybe if I loved what I do for a living, it would've been much easier. But nope - my job sucks, and I loathe every new morning of the working week. And when weekends fly by, it always feels a tad bit worse.

wotf016

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Ishmael
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Ishmael » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:27 am

nainy wrote:Maybe if I loved what I do for a living, it would've been much easier. But nope - my job sucks, and I loathe every new morning of the working week.


I didn't want to be a teacher, but I didn't have much choice, having been invalided from the job I really wanted to do. I also wanted to write, but I couldn't interest anybody in my work. (I still have this problem much of the time.) I came across a lot of people who really wanted to be teachers but who weren't actually good at it. Other people were like me and teaching because they had to.

But the job needs doing and somebody has to do it. So I decided that if I had to teach I would at least be good at it. The more I worked at it the better at it I became and strangely the better I liked it. I found I could also help other people, students and other teachers. A few people even began to appreciate my efforts.

There are always plenty of people out there who have more reason to be miserable than we do. If we don't have much choice we need to make the best of it we can. There is genuine satisfaction to be derived from being good at what you do, even if you would prefer that you didn't have to do it. And if you feel more positive about life in general you will write better too.

End of uplifting homily. Feel free to ignore, but it seemed to work for me. wotf008
1 x SF, 2 x SHM, 11 x HM, WotF batting average .583
Blog The View From Sliabh Mannan.

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby nainy » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:27 am

I wanted to be a teacher, and I became a teacher, albeit I'm not working as one right now. Shouldn't have watched that Japanese anime about a cool blonde teacher when I was a kid.wotf001

I understand, Ishmael, and thanks for that. Just needed a vent, hence the rant.

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Imagination Vortex » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:17 pm

I guess you could call this a rant about words, and no I don't mean anything that has to do with the words I write. I'm talking about the words that come out of peoples mouths. I just got an HM from writers of the future, and most everyone I've told has been negative about it. They will say things like "that's it?" or "so are you done with this writing now?" Rant! Rant! Rant! But I guess it only makes me more determined to win one day and prove them wrong! Ha! I do know that an HM is still a rejection, but really people, do you have to continue and try to crush my dreams!

-End Rant-
~You Are Now Entering Stephanie's Vortex~
WOTF: 1x Silver, 4x HM, 13x R
IOTF: 1x Semi, 2x R, 4x Into the Vortex

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Rebecca Birch » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:21 pm

Imagination Vortex wrote:I guess you could call this a rant about words, and no I don't mean anything that has to do with the words I write. I'm talking about the words that come out of peoples mouths. I just got an HM from writers of the future, and most everyone I've told has been negative about it. They will say things like "that's it?" or "so are you done with this writing now?" Rant! Rant! Rant! But I guess it only makes me more determined to win one day and prove them wrong! Ha! I do know that an HM is still a rejection, but really people, do you have to continue and try to crush my dreams!

-End Rant-


Ugh, that is eminently rantable. You've got this, Stephanie. Never give up! Never surrender!
Rebecca Birch
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Imagination Vortex » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:28 pm

Thanks Rebecca! At least everyone here has been so nice and congratulated me! I think other people that aren't writers just don't get it. They see writing as a chore, and can't see why I'd want to continue it.

Oh and I can't believe I forgot to mention my favorite line that someone gave me after I told them about my HM. They said "you probably didn't win because you didn't major in science."
wotf027
Ok I admit, I did terrible in science during school, and sometimes when I read a hard sci fi story I can't understand any of the jargon. But still, HM - I must be doing something right? Right?
~You Are Now Entering Stephanie's Vortex~
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:02 pm

Imagination Vortex wrote:Thanks Rebecca! At least everyone here has been so nice and congratulated me! I think other people that aren't writers just don't get it. They see writing as a chore, and can't see why I'd want to continue it.

Oh and I can't believe I forgot to mention my favorite line that someone gave me after I told them about my HM. They said "you probably didn't win because you didn't major in science."
wotf027
Ok I admit, I did terrible in science during school, and sometimes when I read a hard sci fi story I can't understand any of the jargon. But still, HM - I must be doing something right? Right?


OK, I have a rule: Five Minute Rant is about letting people vent. It's NOT about solving their problem or talking them out of thinking they have a problem. It's about giving us a place to just briefly admit that rejection sucks, so we can go back to bravely facing the world.

But darn it, that's not right! That's a lousy way for them to treat you. Just remember: an HM is a top 10% ranking in a WORLD WIDE competition. Yes, it's a competition for new writers, but it's WORLD WIDE! And the competition is pretty fierce. More than half of last year's winners had publications or book contracts by the time they got to the workshop. You are competing at THAT level in a WORLD WIDE competition, and you scored in the top 10%. There are no guarantees from that, but it's pretty darn impressive.

And them? What WORLD WIDE competitions have they even ENTERED, much less placed in the top 10%?

As for science... Hugo, Nebula, and John W. Campbell winner Robert J. Sawyer points out that science fiction writers don't have to be scientists any more than sports writers have to be athletes. It can help. Some athletes become great sports writers, and some scientists become great writers. But some athletes are lousy writers, and so are some scientists. What you need -- and what you HAVE -- is a love of the field and an imagination that grabs hold of the ideas from science and says, "How would that affect people? How would they change?"

How many of these self-appointed critics write science fiction? Or read it? Or write ANYTHING on a regular basis?

Anyone can criticize. A small handful can do. And a smaller handful can persevere, keep improving, and get the kind of results you've already gotten. Would you like better results? Heck, yeah! But don't let anyone put down the results you've already achieved.

(Grumble, grumble... Wanna go kick them now...)
http://Shoemaker.Space
Other worlds from award-winning author Martin L. Shoemaker

WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT!
REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT!
Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience.
NNiNN

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby E.CaimanSands » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:15 pm

Sympathies. Unfortunately, I think non-writers don't get how hard it is to write something decent. Everyone thinks they can write a saleable story if they try. In particular they don't get that while we might "only" be writing at a WotF HM level now, that's part of a learning process and for all they know we might be writing at a Hugo-winning or NYT bestselling level in a few years.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Elen Tel'Ithil » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:13 pm

Preach it, Martin!

Stephanie, congratulations on not doing violence to anyone. (Or, at least, not getting caught doing violence to anyone...)
"You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you." - Ray Bradbury
"Write until it becomes as natural as breathing. Write until not writing makes you anxious." - Christina Katz

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R x 2

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Imagination Vortex » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:33 pm

Thank you Martin, Elinor and Elen! Your encouragement and kind words have completely outdone all the negativity I have heard. It is much better to hear positive things, especially being reminded that HM isn't a failure - it's a step to something more. I do wish you could come over here and beat them up for me though! And gator is more than welcome to take a bite. Maybe it would beat some sense into them (unless I beat them up first by proving them wrong and getting published one day!)
~You Are Now Entering Stephanie's Vortex~
WOTF: 1x Silver, 4x HM, 13x R
IOTF: 1x Semi, 2x R, 4x Into the Vortex

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Elen Tel'Ithil » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:36 am

Imagination Vortex wrote:(unless I beat them up first by proving them wrong and getting published one day!)

Yes! That!

Never give up! Never surrender!

wotf009
"You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you." - Ray Bradbury
"Write until it becomes as natural as breathing. Write until not writing makes you anxious." - Christina Katz

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R x 2

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Ishmael » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:31 am

E.CaimanSands wrote:Sympathies. Unfortunately, I think non-writers don't get how hard it is to write something decent. Everyone thinks they can write a saleable story if they try. In particular they don't get that while we might "only" be writing at a WotF HM level now, that's part of a learning process and for all they know we might be writing at a Hugo-winning or NYT bestselling level in a few years.


Hear, Hear! Oyez, Oyez!

And while I'm at it, I used to teach philosophy. One day a certain administrator told me 'We see no need for philosophy' and proposed to delete it from the curriculum. It doesn't contain any facts and everyone knows how to think already. To which of course the only possible response is 'That's all you know!" (Or possibly 'That's what you think!')

When you are trying to excel in a qualitative skill, it is quite common to be treated as though you are not engaged in proper work. But if we were the sort who quit when the going gets tough we would have quit long ago.

I remember when I was at school that one day the class was introduced to the art of climbing a rope. Everybody except me either succeeded in about a minute or gave up. I must have taken two or three minutes, the bulk of that time struggling on my own with everyone watching. I got to the top though. The teacher, who knew about these things, waited for me to do so and then gave me full marks for determination. A lesson in life that has stayed with me. If it's worth doing ...
1 x SF, 2 x SHM, 11 x HM, WotF batting average .583
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:08 am

Elen Tel'Ithil wrote:Preach it, Martin!

Stephanie, congratulations on not doing violence to anyone. (Or, at least, not getting caught doing violence to anyone...)



Hmm, I was going to add my own congrats for getting within the 10 percent range, and sympathies to Stephanie last night, but most have allowed myself to get distracted. Anyway, Stephanie, you did do something right. Obviously some of those people you talked to don't know science fiction and/or contests. I wonder how many would think an athletic should stop after one failure at getting to the Olympics. Or missing it by one point.

Now I can add my agreement with Martin too.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Muri McCage » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:16 am

It's hard enough to ignore the persistent doubter in our own heads, without the cluelesness of others that can even go so far as ridicule. I've been lucky with close family and friends who get it, but there are always people who make me feel as if they think I'm delusional for believing in myself. Honorable Mention is just that. An honor. Recognition of accomplishment. Hang on to that, Stephanie. And look forward to the day when the people who don't understand are forced to!
Mom in the Moon, Analog October 2016
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:44 pm

Hmm, I was just thinking that it's really tough when those who "criticize" you story-novel are editors and potential buyers. Who speak by not buying.


Then the rant is turned on oneself for not writing better---more or less.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Davian Aw » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:33 pm

I've got a story that seems to be cursed. It first got shortlisted at Baen's Universe before they went defunct, and they said they were almost definitely going to publish it. Months later I got an email saying that they'd overestimated the number of pages available, had to cut one story, and it happened to be mine, sorry. I sent that story for an anthology, and got a few encouraging emails at varied stages saying they liked it a lot and wanted to hold on to it. Months later, I got an email from the head editor saying that while it was "a very strong piece" and they were sorry to let it go, it didn't quite fit in with the rest of the anthology. I submitted it elsewhere, got nice personal rejections from Asimov's and Strange Horizons and other places that rarely give personals; and right now I'm down to my last SFF pro market before I run out of them and either try non-genre pro or SFF semi-pro. argh.

Though one thing I do is to revise and try to improve my story with each rejection. It makes the rejection easier to deal with, knowing that the story will be better off for it. I'm glad that a lot of stories I sent in my late teens didn't get accepted, because those early drafts sucked, and I've since been able to make them much, much better.

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby george nik. » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:01 pm

Davian Aw wrote:I've got a story that seems to be cursed. It first got shortlisted at Baen's Universe before they went defunct, and they said they were almost definitely going to publish it. Months later I got an email saying that they'd overestimated the number of pages available, had to cut one story, and it happened to be mine, sorry. I sent that story for an anthology, and got a few encouraging emails at varied stages saying they liked it a lot and wanted to hold on to it. Months later, I got an email from the head editor saying that while it was "a very strong piece" and they were sorry to let it go, it didn't quite fit in with the rest of the anthology. I submitted it elsewhere, got nice personal rejections from Asimov's and Strange Horizons and other places that rarely give personals; and right now I'm down to my last SFF pro market before I run out of them and either try non-genre pro or SFF semi-pro. argh.

Though one thing I do is to revise and try to improve my story with each rejection. It makes the rejection easier to deal with, knowing that the story will be better off for it. I'm glad that a lot of stories I sent in my late teens didn't get accepted, because those early drafts sucked, and I've since been able to make them much, much better.

The story might be cursed, but all this impact it makes means it must sure be awesome. wotf009

Anyway, there are more than 30 SFF pro markets around. Of course a particular story might not be well suited to all of them, but are you sure you checked all possibilities?
George Nikolopoulos
WOTF: 1 SF, 1 SHM, 4 HM
Fiction (EN): 43 stories sold, 29 published
Fiction (GR): c.10 stories published & a children’s novel
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby bobsandiego » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:36 pm

My novel was sent home packing from a pro publisher.
Nice, but not personal rejection.
Using the opportunity to subtly poke the agency that request a full a month ago...

waiting continues..
Literary saboteur
Blog: http://www.robertmitchellevans.com/
HM X 5
SF X 3
F X 1
Current Rejection Streak: 0


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