Five Minute Rant

Specifics about craft, talent, technique, etc.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:56 pm

I'll try to do mine a bit longer--------------- wotf007


I already ranted on this a bit on another forum but here goes here too.

But I said I can relate. My rejected Q1 story was totally rejected by Stephen over at F&SF It was all cleaned up: meaning the grammar and typos and such stuff. It was worked on to the best of what I have learned that makes good writing and redone with more of that in mind, including cutting the opening twice because my last two WotFs had way too long openings---or so I was told by two people who should know. And this opening started out shorter.

As I said it didn't make the grade at all which makes me wonder if my idea that it was rejected for a technical reason as in not doing a rule is valid and it was reject in the first round because the Dave never got past the first couple of sentences even though they should have been grabbers.


Hmm, still not quite five minutes worth but I'm out of things to rant on for this one.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

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HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:18 pm

Another one so soon. And I will be able to do another one next even though I probably won't.

That story should have it all--more than likely it won't though since I wrote it.

Anyway for today. Two things that relate to each other. Yesterday another complete rejection from F&SF -tried to include what is need, the five senses, setting in the opening, hint of a problem, getting into my MC's mind and heart etc. nothing though Stephan probably didn't past the opening even though it took a week longer than normal for them and No sign of why. Someone on vacation there? It get lost for a few days?

But the thing that got me was that an Online friend got some good news today--actually the news was released today. I said congrats--his writing deserves it---now though I don't feel like writing tonight. I must have taken a step backwards with my writing no matter what.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Ishmael » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:21 am

Self deprecation on this forum is supposed to be a no-no, LD. You only get to rant at other people.

Unless you rant at me, of course, because I am not other people. If I were other people I would be plural but actually I'm only singular. Yes, I know from the frequency of my posts that you'd think I was plural. On the other hand, despite working for many years in the city of John Knox, I am not a monstrous regiment of women.

wotf006 John Knox was politically incorrect. Who knew? wotf019
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby bobsandiego » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:21 pm

Finally got my rejection from LORE for a short story a paralyzed wizard.
oh well it's off to another market, but at least they did say this....

We are going to pass on this particular effort, but I hope we shall see
more stories from you in the future.


I've been around enough editors to know that don't ask for more unless you were close...
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:17 pm

Ishmael wrote:Self deprecation on this forum is supposed to be a no-no, LD. You only get to rant at other people.

Unless you rant at me, of course, because I am not other people. If I were other people I would be plural but actually I'm only singular. Yes, I know from the frequency of my posts that you'd think I was plural. On the other hand, despite working for many years in the city of John Knox, I am not a monstrous regiment of women.

wotf006 John Knox was politically incorrect. Who knew? wotf019



People here usually ignore my rants that include myself. Maybe that's why, I am committing a faux pas which is french for misstep which explains my writing---Oops did it again.


But as to John Knox---either I have forgotten something--that which you are referencing---about him or I didn't know something---that which you are referencing--then again with my memory it could be both or maybe neither something--that which you are referencing.

In other words what was politically incorrect about him---that which you are referencing. And in either case back then it most probably wouldn't be politically incorrect in fact it might have been the in thing to do. Which means John mayhaps was cool.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:17 pm

bobsandiego wrote:Finally got my rejection from LORE for a short story a paralyzed wizard.
oh well it's off to another market, but at least they did say this....

We are going to pass on this particular effort, but I hope we shall see
more stories from you in the future.


I've been around enough editors to know that don't ask for more unless you were close...



Nice one at least.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Ishmael » Thu May 01, 2014 2:21 am

LDWriter2 wrote:
Ishmael wrote: On the other hand, despite working for many years in the city of John Knox, I am not a monstrous regiment of women.
wotf006 John Knox was politically incorrect. Who knew? wotf019


But as to John Knox---either I have forgotten something--that which you are referencing---about him or I didn't know something---that which you are referencing--then again with my memory it could be both or maybe neither something--that which you are referencing.

In other words what was politically incorrect about him---that which you are referencing. And in either case back then it most probably wouldn't be politically incorrect in fact it might have been the in thing to do. Which means John mayhaps was cool.


Well, in 16th century English the word 'regiment' meant 'rule by', (a meaning which almost survives today as the word 'regimen'.) Our John was objecting to rule by women, viz. Mary Queen of Scots. It is a calumny to suggest that he thought, an account of the number of her husbands, that she was herself plural.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby george nik. » Fri May 02, 2014 3:03 pm

I think I'll have a rant now, and it will be about deadlines.
There are so many deadlines and I'd just love to make all of them, and I make maybe 1 in 10, if I'm lucky.

Just the last couple of days I missed the deadlines for seven markets; though I have to admit that none of these deadlines really got me going, so maybe that's why I missed them (I made the one I really liked). In another world, however (probably one where I wouldn't have to work 12 hours a day for the whole of the past week) I'd have liked to make all of them.

Anyway, I'll just mention them now, so I can get over it and go on with my life.

Spindles and Spellbound (one theme, two markets). They wanted a fairytale retelling with the hero being LGBT or crippled. I like the concept, but their rules for retelling were so strict I lost all enthusiasm.
Triangulation and PARSEC (one theme, two markets). I like the markets, but... Parch? What could I say about parch??? I did have an idea, but as I contemplated the story it would be about ten times longer than I had time to write and much longer than their upper limit anyway so I didn't bother.
Penumbra's Hyperspeed and Crossed Genres' Time Travel. Two markets I like a lot, but I don't really care about either time travel or hyperspeed, so, well...
Miskatonic valley anthology. That's one I'd be really interested in, but: a lot of research, very low rates and the fact that if the story was rejected I wouldn't know what to do with it, combined to prevent me from going for it.

So why do I rant about it if I really didn't want to write these stories? That's exactly my point. Although I didn't particularly cared about any of these themes, I really wanted to write about them. I want to write about everything, and I have so little time to write I end up writing just one or two stories a month. I have to do something about this, though I have no idea what.

Off to the May deadlines, then...
George Nikolopoulos
WOTF: 1 SF, 1 SHM, 4 HM
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Fri May 02, 2014 8:57 pm

george nik. wrote:I think I'll have a rant now, and it will be about deadlines.
There are so many deadlines and I'd just love to make all of them, and I make maybe 1 in 10, if I'm lucky.

................




Lately I feel the same way even though I have less deadlines. I have wanted to do half a dozen for Penumbra, but when not on this forum I just plain forget. And then there's onthepremises.com. I need to double check on their latest contest, but I may have missed it. And they have two: a regular size story and a mini contest--I got a HM with them for a fifty word tale once.

There was one other one, but I forget what it was at the moment.

I'm just too busy with my Indie novel and a story set to Indie publish I am trying to finish. Plus WotF of course.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Ishmael » Sat May 03, 2014 2:06 am

For me there is a link between deadlines and motivation, but it is not as invariable a link as I once thought. I met every Penumbra deadline for months until they just plain lost my submission for the second time. Before this I didn't care whether the theme was inspirational, I just wrote about it anyway. Since then I find I can't write for submission to Penumbra at all. I don't think they singled me out for persecution, but I do feel quite irrationally insulted. Somehow I have to get over it.

It is particularly relevant, I think, that the rather tight Penumbra word limit does focus the mind. Interestingly, I have found success elsewhere by editing a 3,500 even more tightly - down below 3,000. Yesterday I went back to a 7,600 that has lain on the shelf for a while and cut it to 6,600, in the process making a much better story. I used to overwrite extensively and now I seem to be spending most of my writing time editing old stories rather than starting from scratch. It has to be better than not writing at all, I guess, though I'd quite like to find an inspirational deadline again.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby george nik. » Sun May 04, 2014 5:40 am

Ishmael wrote:For me there is a link between deadlines and motivation, but it is not as invariable a link as I once thought. I met every Penumbra deadline for months until they just plain lost my submission for the second time. Before this I didn't care whether the theme was inspirational, I just wrote about it anyway. Since then I find I can't write for submission to Penumbra at all. I don't think they singled me out for persecution, but I do feel quite irrationally insulted. Somehow I have to get over it.

It is particularly relevant, I think, that the rather tight Penumbra word limit does focus the mind. Interestingly, I have found success elsewhere by editing a 3,500 even more tightly - down below 3,000. Yesterday I went back to a 7,600 that has lain on the shelf for a while and cut it to 6,600, in the process making a much better story. I used to overwrite extensively and now I seem to be spending most of my writing time editing old stories rather than starting from scratch. It has to be better than not writing at all, I guess, though I'd quite like to find an inspirational deadline again.
wotf008

For me, it's quite the opposite. Most of my ex-Penumbra stories' critiquers say they feel that my stories outline many things instead of showing them, and I know this is mostly because of the word limit and the time constraints. Now that I've started revising my stories they become much longer and seem to fare better. My semi (not Penumbra originally, but Crossed Genres) went from 3000 to 6100 works after revision before submitting to WOTF.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Sat May 10, 2014 3:37 pm

Back to my rant on F&SF and my writing. Just got back one rejection that I believe is their third level reject---still not what I want but it's something at least. Recently all of my stories have been their first level even though they should be improving, so one step up anyway.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

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The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
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published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby s_c_baker » Tue May 13, 2014 8:59 am

bobsandiego wrote:Finally got my rejection from LORE for a short story a paralyzed wizard.
oh well it's off to another market, but at least they did say this....

We are going to pass on this particular effort, but I hope we shall see
more stories from you in the future.


I've been around enough editors to know that don't ask for more unless you were close...

How long did you have to wait? LORE's waits are maddening...
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby bobsandiego » Tue May 13, 2014 5:31 pm

s_c_baker wrote:
bobsandiego wrote:Finally got my rejection from LORE for a short story a paralyzed wizard.
oh well it's off to another market, but at least they did say this....

We are going to pass on this particular effort, but I hope we shall see
more stories from you in the future.


I've been around enough editors to know that don't ask for more unless you were close...

How long did you have to wait? LORE's waits are maddening...

240 Days
*le sigh*
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Sat May 17, 2014 1:46 pm

Form rejection from Strange Horizons...

RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT!

Oh, well, off to Duotrope...
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby bobsandiego » Mon May 26, 2014 11:56 am

Rather than place this in jibber jabber I'm putting it here because it really it a rant....

I freaking don't understand what the hell is going on here. You can see from my signature that I have scored above rejection a number of time, six to be precise. While this is over a span of 11 years, I have been far from diligent in entering the contest every quarter, in fact I think that there is only one year where that occurred and there have been breaks that last over a year.
That said my submission under Dave have yielding the longest unbroken string of flat R's that I have endured in the contest. When K.D. was reading my results varied up and down, but with the exception of one story submitted to K.D. and judged by Dave, everything Dave has seen he's sent back with a flat rejection.
Don't misunderstand me, I do not believe that I am in any way entitled to a placing result. No, I must earn that with quality, but quality now matter how many definitions you apply, is a subjective judgement not a qualitative one. Tastes vary, I just finished ready a best-selling genre novel recently and found it utterly dull and the antagonist's arc was more compelling and emotionally engaging than the hero's, yet this sells very well because tastes vary.
I strongly suspect, though as an R I cannot and can never know, that the ending of my story sunk it with Dave, but the tale as constructed can have no other ending. It makes me wonder if a story such as 'The Cold Equations" would have a chance in the contest.
This may be hurt and anger typing today -- hence it's a rant -- but too many people have responded to my story with the comment that it was the best that they had seen from me and a flat R feels like slap in the face.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Mon May 26, 2014 12:32 pm

Rants need not be justified. They are about the venting we need when our hopes are dashed.

But it happens I think yours is justified. Until Q1, when I finally found Dave's strike zone, I felt like a blindfolded kid with a piñata bat. I knew that piñata was out there, but damn if I knew where. I was sending him stuff I thought was my best stuff, better than my two Finalists, and I barely brushed the piñata.

Dave is a very different judge, with very different tastes, and that's frustrating when you can't figure out those tastes. I think that's an appropriate reason to rant (but I try to keep my rants to Five Minutes).
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WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT!
REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT!
Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Mon May 26, 2014 2:42 pm

Don't think Bob's rant was five minutes worth but o might come close. wotf007



I thought about doing one here, except I pretty much said it all in two mini rants on the other thread.

Except I want to say that the man is too picky, but obviously he's not since people from here have gotten every level including in the book, which leaves one other option. I'm the poorest writer here--at least in the bottom percentile.

Which means I can't write good nor can I learn.

Yes there is taste and that is subjective, but my problem isn't just with WotF.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

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HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
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Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Ishmael » Tue May 27, 2014 5:56 am

LDWriter2 wrote:I'm the poorest writer here--at least in the bottom percentile.
Which means I can't write good nor can I learn.


I don't see how you can reach that conclusion, Louis. I went out in the same wave as you. I've endured six Rs in the last seven. I'm in the same position as Bob but arguably worse. I've entered every quarter of the nouvelle regime. 29/3 was my sole HM prior to 31/1.

My rejected Q2 was a serious work and the science part of the fiction was not just hard it was granite; so hard that I subsequently learned that the US has recently set up a special, if obscure, body to study precisely the risk that I identified.

As we are regularly reminded, this is not a competition in which the top eight stories finish ranked one to eight. Because of the unspecified sub-genres problem we have no idea whether we are submitting in a category that even exists, let alone one which may happen to be heavily over-subscribed.

I refuse to accept that my story is bad because it's been rejected once. How many best sellers were repeatedly rejected before finding the right publisher?

The fact is you've been down on yourself for a couple of weeks or more. I know, we've all been there. I was there less than two months ago. Since then I've had a short story published in AE and won a regional competition.

Keep the faith, my friend. Keep the faith. wotf024
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Ishmael » Tue May 27, 2014 6:04 am

bobsandiego wrote:Tastes vary, I just finished ready a best-selling genre novel recently and found it utterly dull and the antagonist's arc was more compelling and emotionally engaging than the hero's, yet this sells very well because tastes vary.

Trust me, Bob, you don't want to be in book-flinging range when I decide that yet another best seller is nowhere near my standard of writing. (And I am far from believing that my standard is without either peer or superior.)
bobsandiego wrote:This may be hurt and anger typing today -- hence it's a rant -- but too many people have responded to my story with the comment that it was the best that they had seen from me and a flat R feels like slap in the face.

Whereas I was so certain that mine was a finalist that the only question in my mind was whether it would receive a combination of grand prize and the immortal comment "Pournelle really liked your story!" or only one or the other.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby storysinger » Tue May 27, 2014 7:09 am

bobsandiego wrote:I freaking don't understand what the hell is going on here.


None of us can bob.
I've only read v30 once but it seems to have less syfy and more variety.
Apparently DF's tastes are different from KD's.
From what I've read there are many more writers entering the competition than ever before which makes getting past the first wave exponentially harder than at any time in the past.

Martin's success shows that persistence pays off if the story is written well enough to catch DF's attention.
Don't give up on the contest yet.
You still have 2 more chances at v31.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby bobsandiego » Tue May 27, 2014 5:42 pm

Dave is a very different judge, with very different tastes, and that's frustrating when you can't figure out those tastes.

And this is a major stumbling block for me not just here at WotF but everywhere. I read the magazine, I read the anthologies and I'm nearly always stuck trying to work out what the tastes of the editor actually are.
It seems my only hope here is to throw stuck and hope that blind chance I land something in his comfort zone.I have read all the daily kicks, I have read the anthology and I still feel like a blind man in a deep dark cave.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Tue May 27, 2014 7:28 pm

Ishmael wrote:
LDWriter2 wrote:I'm the poorest writer here--at least in the bottom percentile.
Which means I can't write good nor can I learn.


I don't see how you can reach that conclusion, Louis. I went out in the same wave as you. I've endured six Rs in the last seven. I'm in the same position as Bob but arguably worse. I've entered every quarter of the nouvelle regime. 29/3 was my sole HM prior to 31/1.................
wotf024



Two thoughts here.

Starting with Even though I have been sending in stories for five years at least, I'm just starting here from when Dave took over.

First thought here: I was thinking along the lines that most people here--at least those who have been here a while--have gotten something from Dave-even if a HM-but I haven't. And even though it's obvious that this last story has been rejected only once, from past experience it will not do any better when sent to any other market.

My second thought was---umm, If I am reading your signature correctly you're one of the people that have gotten something from Dave and from what you said other sources.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

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HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Tue May 27, 2014 7:37 pm

bobsandiego wrote:
Dave is a very different judge, with very different tastes, and that's frustrating when you can't figure out those tastes.

And this is a major stumbling block for me not just here at WotF but everywhere. I read the magazine, I read the anthologies and I'm nearly always stuck trying to work out what the tastes of the editor actually are.
It seems my only hope here is to throw stuck and hope that blind chance I land something in his comfort zone.I have read all the daily kicks, I have read the anthology and I still feel like a blind man in a deep dark cave.



From reading the last anthology I see that Dave does like more variety then KDW did--when he says originality he means it. Even though a couple of stories in that anthology weren't all that original. "Cop For A Day" was one of those. Unless it was the setting and the idea about being a cop for one day. The plot was pretty basic and I think so was the setting.

I tried for that in the last story. With the setting at least the plot may not have been even though I have read only a couple of SF stories with that idea. Of course even though I worked on it, the opening scene may have been too long again. The last two stories had openings that were too long according to a couple of guys nice enough to look them over.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

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The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Wed May 28, 2014 7:09 pm

I thought about what I said on the 26. Instead of saying I can't learn, it is probably more correct to say that I can't integrate what I learn with more writing style.


An done thing I forgot to say in a response. I have down on my writing for a long time. I just don't usually say anything.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

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published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby LDWriter2 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:04 pm

Okay a double rant here. My latest story to F&SF is a half week late. The same like the last four stories--maybe five. I wonder if they change their schedule so they only read or send back stories every two weeks or so. Last time I received two stories on the same day even though they were sent in over a week apart.



And I have a story at another magazine that I think is late--or so it seems. That one I have been day dreaming about them sending some good news this time which would kinda of mess up my schedule but the other day I decided that if anything they probably will say it's a bad story or bad writing. Not in those words of course but that would be essentially what is meant.

But now that I have complained about them taking so long they may send the story back in a day or three--that is usually how it works for me.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Isto » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:28 pm

This is more of a scream than a rant. Painted Bride Quarterly held my story from 5/2/13 (YES 2013) until 6/30/14.
AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-sigh- That feels better.
- Isto
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Martin L. Shoemaker
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:40 am

192 day personal rejection from Tor.com.

RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT!

Oh, well, off to Duotrope...
http://Shoemaker.Space
Other worlds from award-winning author Martin L. Shoemaker

WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT!
REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT!
Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience.
NNiNN

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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby T. R. Napper » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:45 am

Martin L. Shoemaker wrote:192 day personal rejection from Tor.com.

RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT!

Oh, well, off to Duotrope...


Ha. I've had something with them for 112 days. I reckon I'll be waiting 6 months total for nothing more than a form rejection from those guys.

Personal rejection from Tor though Martin - that's a thing.
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Re: Five Minute Rant

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:43 am

T. R. Napper wrote:
Martin L. Shoemaker wrote:192 day personal rejection from Tor.com.

RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT! RANT!

Oh, well, off to Duotrope...


Ha. I've had something with them for 112 days. I reckon I'll be waiting 6 months total for nothing more than a form rejection from those guys.

Personal rejection from Tor though Martin - that's a thing.


I ain't complainin'! They also encouraged me to send more, and they promised their response times are improving.
http://Shoemaker.Space
Other worlds from award-winning author Martin L. Shoemaker

WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT!
REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT!
Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience.
NNiNN


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