Analog Submissions

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hazlett
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby hazlett » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:59 am

Update: I finally got a response to my query. For anyone else out there with 250+ day wait times, Analog is currently responding to stories sent in June of last year and we all should be hearing answers soon.
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Leo T. Lion » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:49 pm

I got that response today too. I'm a little dubious about it though - as all the rejections I keep seeing are only at about 5 - 6 months...

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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby LDWriter2 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:55 pm

Well, since I can't get to my E-mail or Google+ I decided to send in a story so I sent one to Analog and a different one to Analog. Did a little revising on the openings of each--don't know if they are better now but used what I learned in the online workshop by Dean so they seem to be improved to me. But even if they are it may not mean much.


I'm still not sure if I have one more story at Analog. One was rejected a while back but I think I had two there.

Trevor as seen at the most five of my stories but Ms Williams has seen upwards of 50 of my stories. I hope she at least remembers my name and decides to say something this time. I sent her a neat, little story and I hope the writing is better than usual.

For that matter I sent Trevor a different type for me, hopefully something comes through with it too.
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby LDWriter2 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:48 pm

Hmm,


I forget if this person is here, if so I'm sure they will be around soon but on another forum someone sent in a story to Analog, they checked the status and found that it read "accepted" but he also received an E-mail saying it was rejected.

So does "accepted" on the status board mean something different than what one would assume it to mean?


I've only seen received and rejected but someone here said they saw a "Under Review" even though Trevor evidently doesn't use it. So does he say "Accepted" but it means something else?

Or was it just someone clicking on the wring button?


Oh yeah....I now have two stories there.

One went in 10/20/13 so that is some where around 117 days for that story.

The other went in about two days ago.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby s_c_baker » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:04 pm

Can't speak to the specific instance, but I'm pretty sure they use the Clarkesworld system, which shows:

received
under review
accepted / rejected

Maybe your friend should query, just to make sure where exactly the wires crossed. wotf007

(I have a story at Asimov's now that's "under review," although that means nothing. Lots of form rejections come from there, still.)
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:30 am

Two responses from Analog on Duotrope yesterday and today, plus one on Submission Grinder. This is consistent with what Trevor told me: on January 24, he told me he expected to get to my next story in "about a month". So I think this is reading time at Analog.

Let the obsessing begin!

Errr, continue, I mean...
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby TomKnighton » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:45 am

The one on the Grinder was from about a week before mine, so maybe I'll hear something soon.

So yeah, the obsessing has ramped into high gear over here wotf007

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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:03 am

I'm obsessing more than I should. My next up there is my second Nick Aames story, and the emotional linchpin of my novel. I would really like to see that one go somewhere!
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby TomKnighton » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:42 pm

Submission Grinder is now listing one at 182 days and another at 175 days. As mine is at 178, I expect word any time now.

And every minute that I don't hear anything will be made up of me being convinced that Analog will be the first market to recognize my genius and publish me and make me a household name.

I like to have realistic expectations wotf007

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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:00 pm

TomKnighton wrote:Submission Grinder is now listing one at 182 days and another at 175 days. As mine is at 178, I expect word any time now.

And every minute that I don't hear anything will be made up of me being convinced that Analog will be the first market to recognize my genius and publish me and make me a household name.

I like to have realistic expectations wotf007


As Hudson Hawk said: "It could happen!"

Or as Journey sang: "Don't stop believing..."

Dated references aside: dreaming big is essential to making big things happen.
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby TomKnighton » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:59 pm

Martin L. Shoemaker wrote:
Or as Journey sang: "Don't stop believing..."


Fun fact: A little while before I typed my post, Rock of Ages was on cable. The part they were at? The last scene when they were singing "Don't stop believing..." wotf007

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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:53 pm

TomKnighton wrote:
Martin L. Shoemaker wrote:
Or as Journey sang: "Don't stop believing..."


Fun fact: A little while before I typed my post, Rock of Ages was on cable. The part they were at? The last scene when they were singing "Don't stop believing..." wotf007


Isn't it great when your life has its own sound track? wotf013
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Jennifer Hicks » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:03 pm

TomKnighton wrote:Submission Grinder is now listing one at 182 days and another at 175 days. As mine is at 178, I expect word any time now.

And every minute that I don't hear anything will be made up of me being convinced that Analog will be the first market to recognize my genius and publish me and make me a household name.

I like to have realistic expectations wotf007


Good luck! The 175-day rejection was mine, on a story that got an HM a couple of years ago. No recognition of my genius quite yet, alas. It was a higher-tier rejection with something about liking my writing and "try again."
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby TomKnighton » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:17 pm

Martin L. Shoemaker wrote:
Isn't it great when your life has its own sound track? wotf013


Yes it is wotf013

Jennifer Hicks wrote:
Good luck! The 175-day rejection was mine, on a story that got an HM a couple of years ago. No recognition of my genius quite yet, alas. It was a higher-tier rejection with something about liking my writing and "try again."


I'm not sure what to think then. Maybe those three more days make all the difference.

To be honest, even a higher tier rejection would be somewhat welcome as well, since I know there's a lot of competition for a slot in Analog. I could learn to live with it and accept it as the beginnings of someone accepting the genius that is me. wotf007

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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby hazlett » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:28 pm

hazlett wrote:Update: I finally got a response to my query. For anyone else out there with 250+ day wait times, Analog is currently responding to stories sent in June of last year and we all should be hearing answers soon.


Ugh! My story is now at 260 days, and Analog is responding to submissions at 174 days.

Does anyone have any advice on when I should query again? wotf017
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:26 am

hazlett wrote:
hazlett wrote:Update: I finally got a response to my query. For anyone else out there with 250+ day wait times, Analog is currently responding to stories sent in June of last year and we all should be hearing answers soon.


Ugh! My story is now at 260 days, and Analog is responding to submissions at 174 days.

Does anyone have any advice on when I should query again? wotf017


Informed advice? No.

Wild speculation? Trevor is in a reading phase right now, so he might get to it any second. Wait until the Duotrope and Grinder reports tail off.
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby hazlett » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:09 am

Martin L. Shoemaker wrote:
hazlett wrote:
hazlett wrote:Update: I finally got a response to my query. For anyone else out there with 250+ day wait times, Analog is currently responding to stories sent in June of last year and we all should be hearing answers soon.


Ugh! My story is now at 260 days, and Analog is responding to submissions at 174 days.

Does anyone have any advice on when I should query again? wotf017


Informed advice? No.

Wild speculation? Trevor is in a reading phase right now, so he might get to it any second. Wait until the Duotrope and Grinder reports tail off.


Thanks, Martin. I really hope you're right.
Sean Patrick Hazlett
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby s_c_baker » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:32 am

Similar reports coming through on another writing forum I frequent: people with 200+ day stories feeling frustrated at the 170-day responses, with the same automated response to queries.

Know that at least you do not suffer alone! wotf007
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby TomKnighton » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:11 am

Since I'm not at 180 days, I no longer count in the 170's Club, right? wotf007

I'll be honest, I know how frustrating a 180 day wait has been. I can only imagine how it's got to feel at 200+.

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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Jeffrey » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:32 am

I received a 169 day higher tier form reject today. I had checked the status ~2 hrs before the rejection & it still said "received" at that time. So perhaps longer stories have been held. wotf017 Although you'd hope that would've been communicated when one queried.
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby hazlett » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:03 pm

s_c_baker wrote:Similar reports coming through on another writing forum I frequent: people with 200+ day stories feeling frustrated at the 170-day responses, with the same automated response to queries.

Know that at least you do not suffer alone! wotf007


Stewart, it wouldn't be so bad if we'd received any indications that Analog were at least "considering" our submissions or if Analog allowed simultaneous submissions. But I'd be willing to bet good money that my story sits for the better part of the year and gets a form rejection. When that happens, I'm likely going to be a bit more than frustrated, especially since I couldn't submit it to other markets during that period.
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby s_c_baker » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:43 pm

There, too, you will not be alone . . .
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby hazlett » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:59 pm

s_c_baker wrote:There, too, you will not be alone . . .


True.
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Leo T. Lion » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:38 am

Hazlett, how long is your story? Mine is flash. I keep wondering if they choose by length? Maybe they only look at short pieces when they have a small hole to plug in the magazine?

Anyway, at about 100 days later than some recent rejections, I've had enough. I've sim subbed it. I think there's an implied honour system in a market that asks you to not sim sub. It is saying - hey, we'll respect your story, so please respect mine. Well, being overlooked by so many other subs is not respecting the story.

I hate it when people don't respect the queue.

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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby hazlett » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:58 am

Leo T. Lion wrote:Hazlett, how long is your story? Mine is flash. I keep wondering if they choose by length? Maybe they only look at short pieces when they have a small hole to plug in the magazine?

Anyway, at about 100 days later than some recent rejections, I've had enough. I've sim subbed it. I think there's an implied honour system in a market that asks you to not sim sub. It is saying - hey, we'll respect your story, so please respect mine. Well, being overlooked by so many other subs is not respecting the story.

I hate it when people don't respect the queue.


Mine's 5,000 words. I think I'm going to wait before sim-subbing. As far as I'm concerned, this is Analog's test. If I get back a form rejection, I will seriously consider sim-subbing everything I send them in the future.

Who knows? Analog may actually be seriously considering our stories, though I doubt they've even reviewed mine yet.
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Brad R. Torgersen » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:37 am

I won't say I am thrilled with the tremendous slowdown in response time, since Trevor took the wheel. It would seem for the time being that extraordinarily long waits are the rule, not the exception; even for vets like me. All I can say is: roll with it. Getting overly antsy and/or upset about it won't make Trevor go faster. And I would caution against simultaneous submissions to any pro market. Used to be TOR was the king of the slowpokes, and now Analog might dislodge TOR. Maybe things get better? Maybe they stay the same? Just don't scattershoot your story to the markets. You can do this through an agent to book publishers, but if a short market buys the story and suddenly you have to go yanking it out of the piles of a dozen other editors, and especially if one of those editors took time to read it and/or might have been ready to buy it herself . . . well, you're risking irritating said editor.

As in all things, time spent fretting over response waits is time better spent working on new stories, new books, new material.

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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby hazlett » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:20 pm

Brad,

I agree that irritating an editor is a risk, but it's a small one. One, in fact, that you can quantify.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that one submits a story to both Lightspeed and Analog. According to Duotrope, the probability of acceptance at Lightspeed is 0.35% and at Analog it's 1.91%. The probability that both editors would want to purchase your story, and assuming independence, is (0.35%) x (1.91%) = 0.006685%.

To put that number into perspective, the risk of dying from a heart attack for an American in a given year is over 3,200 times more likely than selling the same story to BOTH Analog and Lightspeed. An American is more than 900 times more likely to die from an accident or injury in a given year than to sell the same story to both magazines. To be fair, an American has a slightly better chance of selling the same story to both Analog and Lightspeed than being killed by a firearm in any given year - but not much (1.7x).

Now to your point, the probability of irritating editors greatly increases if you send your story to twenty editors at once - and the math absolutely supports this (though, I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole today because I have to finish editing my novel). I also think that for known professional authors, sim-subbing is also a bad idea, since editors are more likely to actually consider their material. However, for unknowns, I think the math makes a pretty compelling argument if one only sim-subs to 2 or 3 markets at a time. Any more than that, one's risk of editorial irritation mathematically increases as the number of subs increases. When markets hold one's material for a year, this strategy greatly increases your story's time to market.

From a qualitative perspective, the whole no-sim-sub ban is akin to a potential employer telling you you can't apply to other jobs until you complete their application process. Imagine if that employer forced you to wait a year, and then said, "no." It would be pretty ridiculous, no?

Again, I'm not advocating for sim-subs, I'm just playing devil's advocate, and I've just constructed a logical framework for why unknown authors might consider doing them.

Using Army-speak it's like using a risk assessment matrix where the risk is extremely low (<.01%), but the impact is potentially catastrophic (The editor bans you for life). wotf009

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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:04 pm

You're treating a sale to Analog and a sale to Lightspeed as independent events.

While their editorial tastes differ, both markets are looking for certain minimum standards of writing and storytelling. I submit that a story that is salable at Analog has a higher probability of being salable at Lightspeed.

Pa (probability of a sale at Analog) is actually 1 - Ra (probability of a rejection at Analog). Now a rejection at Analog can be for five basic reasons (seriously, I think we can narrow it down to five for this exercise).

1. Not enough writing quality.
2. Wrong subject matter for Analog.
3. Wrong length for slots they need to fill in the foreseeable future.
4. Too much like something else they have published recently.
5. Other (you got on Trevor's bad side, etc.).

And then combinations of these. Of these, 3, 4, and 5 are independent, I'm pretty sure. 2 is interesting, because there's a slight negative correlation: stylistically they're different magazines, so some things Analog likes, Lightspeed hates, and vice versa. But I think 1 is pretty positively correlated, at least at the ends of the distribution: a really good writer is a really good write, but a middle skill writer might meet one editor's standards but not another's.

Now how much weight to assign 1 to 5 is sheer guesswork, and it's probably not the same at both markets; but from what I hear from slush readers, factor 1 is a really big factor in most rejections.

So I think if your story is salable at Analog, the odds of rejection decrease at Lightspeed, and vice versa. How much? I don't know, but I'm pretty confident they do.

The analogy to employment is pretty flawed, in my opinion. You only have one "you" to employ, but you can sell multiple stories at once. A better analogy might be... I don't know... Hey, what about sales? Yeah, sales is a good analogy for sales! So the analogy might be a home seller and a home buyer, and the buyer demands an exclusive period to make up their mind. I'm pretty sure that never happens! But let's change the analogy further: the seller produces a new house every month, and the buyer buys homes every month; and the seller wants to sell as many homes as possible to as many buyers as needed. In that case, if a buyer asked for an exclusive option deal on one house, the seller would have to decide: do I risk future sales to this buyer, potentially reducing my pool of future buyers, all for the sake of this one sale? Oh, and the buyers all hang out together, so other buyers will know if this buyer has a bad experience. You may shake the confidence of other buyers as well, thus even further limiting your future buyer pool.

Oh, wait, that's not an analogy, it's a direct substitution: homes for stories. But I think it makes my case: there just aren't enough pro-paying markets out there that I want to risk permanently losing one for future sales. Especially since writing another story is less expensive and takes less time than building another home.

That's how I see it. Each of us must make their own decisions regarding their writing career, and that's mine.
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:13 pm

Also, sorry to Leo, but it's not a queue, it's a pile. If you insist on only submitting to markets that treat it as a queue, you're going to limit yourself a lot. Editors have a lot of competing needs and concerns. When they see a story that has a higher probability of meeting more needs, they're going to pull that one out sooner, queue be damned.

That means stories by established authors will tend to get read sooner, because one of the editor's needs is big names on the cover that will draw in casual readers. It also means that if a Mike Resnick or a Jack McDevitt has a story, I expect they bypass the slush completely: they call Trevor, make a pitch, and send the story if he likes the pitch. Because Resnick or McDevitt or a similar name on the cover is worth more than a half dozen Torgersens and Shoemakers (sorry, Brad).

It also means that shorter stories will tend -- I said tend -- too get read sooner because the magazine only has one novella and one or two novelette slots per month, so those get filled faster.

Queuing may sound wonderfully egalitarian, but it doesn't meet the business needs of the market.
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WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
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REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT!
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Re: Analog Submissions

Postby TomKnighton » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:59 pm

That's just waaaaaaaaaay too much math for a Saturday when I'm down with a stomach bug!

FWIW, my story is about 4,000 words, so there's at least that going for it wotf007


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