Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Traditional Publishing, Independent Publishing, Hybrid, Old Model, New Model, Etc.
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ThomasKCarpenter
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Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Postby ThomasKCarpenter » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:18 am

Controversial topic for some, I'm sure.

http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=9358
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Re: Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Postby s_c_baker » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:48 am

Worth noting:

(Warning!!! I am talking about novels only here, NOT short fiction… The short fiction markets play under other rules and are fine. The top magazines and anthologies don’t buy all rights or hold your rights forever. For example, at Fiction River, we ask for only a two month exclusive from the time of publication. Some of the Dell magazines ask for six months up to a year. All fair. So this discussion is only about novels and traditional novel publishers.) - See more at: http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=9358# ... y4Laq.dpuf
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Re: Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Postby LDWriter2 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:39 pm

ThomasKCarpenter wrote:Controversial topic for some, I'm sure.

http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=9358



I don't have time to read this right now but I've heard him say it before but here did he say all of the Traditional Publishers or the Top New York ones? When I've heard him discuss it before he always referred to the Big Guys. I tried to ask about the small and medium Traditional Publishers but he didn't respond. I may have asked the question strangely.
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Brad R. Torgersen
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Re: Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Postby Brad R. Torgersen » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:26 am

I would modify it to say: submit to Trad Pub, just be aware of what you're potentially getting into. I know lots of people who are sore at Trad Pub for giving them a bad deal, and I also know people who are making six and seven figures from Trad Pub. Likewise, I know lots of Self Pub people who are feeling let down (by low sales) and I know of a few examples where Self Pub is paying off the mortgage, the bills, allowing people to quit day jobs, etc. As long as you're a grown up and know what you're getting into (eyes wide open) both avenues are available.

Me, I'm taking a run at Trad Pub. I'm old fashioned like that. wotf011
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Re: Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Postby Strycher » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:34 am

Brad R. Torgersen wrote:I would modify it to say: submit to Trad Pub, just be aware of what you're potentially getting into.


That's just the title of the blog post . . . The content is actually advice for pursuing trade pub.

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Re: Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Postby katsincommand » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:28 am

The gist of the advice is self pub and use your published story as your submission. (If I understaood that right).

Now, I only need a novel that I feel comfortable putting out there. *shivers*
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Re: Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Postby bobsandiego » Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:48 am

Brad R. Torgersen wrote:I would modify it to say: submit to Trad Pub, just be aware of what you're potentially getting into. I know lots of people who are sore at Trad Pub for giving them a bad deal, and I also know people who are making six and seven figures from Trad Pub. Likewise, I know lots of Self Pub people who are feeling let down (by low sales) and I know of a few examples where Self Pub is paying off the mortgage, the bills, allowing people to quit day jobs, etc. As long as you're a grown up and know what you're getting into (eyes wide open) both avenues are available.

Me, I'm taking a run at Trad Pub. I'm old fashioned like that. wotf011

Well said.
I have a friend who when she was offered a contract from an established house it was a bad one, she was trepidatious about turning it down, but her agent got her a much better deal elsewhere. That first offer got her the agent and the agent turned it into something better. So agents as not always ignorant of the contracts, do your research on publishers, agents, and the market.
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Mike Resnick
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Re: Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Postby Mike Resnick » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:42 pm

There are good agents and bad agents. I had a mediocre one from 1981 to mid-1984. She sold 14 books for me, one to Berkley, 13 to New American Library, and made one (1) foreign sale.

Then I got a great agent, whom I still have 30 years later. She got me triple my highest previous advance on the first book I gave her, and made thirty-one (31) foreign sales in the first 18 months I had her.

She's not allowed to retire or die before I do, but I assure you she's not the only top agent specializing
in our field. You ask around, you talk to writers who are in an agent's stable, and just as important, you
talk to those who have left the agent's stable and find out why, and then you make your choice. If you've
any talent, a good agent can do five times as much good for you as you could do alone, especially at the
outset; and the flip side is that a bad agent can destroy your career five times faster than you can on your own.

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Re: Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Postby Mike Resnick » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:13 pm

Since we're mentioning agents, I should point out that The Resnick/Malzberg Dialogue on agents was just posted on my web page an hour ago. It originally appeared in the SFWA Bulletin about 15 years ago, but except for one comment about fees (not all the agents had moved from 10% to 15% at that time) it's as valid today as it was then.

You can find it at www.mikeresnick.com -- and if you get there more than a week from now and come to a different Diallogue first, just hunt around; it'll be there somewhere.

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Re: Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Postby LDWriter2 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:51 pm

Brad R. Torgersen wrote:I would modify it to say: submit to Trad Pub, just be aware of what you're potentially getting into. I know lots of people who are sore at Trad Pub for giving them a bad deal, and I also know people who are making six and seven figures from Trad Pub. Likewise, I know lots of Self Pub people who are feeling let down (by low sales) and I know of a few examples where Self Pub is paying off the mortgage, the bills, allowing people to quit day jobs, etc. As long as you're a grown up and know what you're getting into (eyes wide open) both avenues are available.

Me, I'm taking a run at Trad Pub. I'm old fashioned like that. wotf011



The last time I heard anything from Dean on the subject--I mean heard for it was a video--he said the same thing. Watch Out but go ahead if you desire too. Watching out includes looking for some new contract clauses that should be totally rejected by writers.
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

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The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html

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Re: Stop Submitting Manuscripts to Traditional Publishers

Postby LDWriter2 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:58 pm

Kristine Kathryn Rusch has a bunch of posts about this subject. If I recall correctly there's one that explains how the paradigm has shifted and bookstores now do buy more POD books because they are listed on a certain list they buy from. Sorry couldn't find the post and the name of the list, I spent half an hour going over various posts. I know it was a couple of months ago.

But even without that one post there are still tons of information here http://kriswrites.com/business-rusch-publishing-articles/

And one from her husband Dean Wesley Smith partially dealing with that. http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=9148
Working on turning Lead into Gold.

Four HMs From WotF
The latest was Q1'12
HM-quarter 4 Volume 32
One HM for another contest
published in Strange New Worlds Ten.
Another HM http://onthepremises.com/minis/mini_18.html


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