Success!

Traditional Publishing, Independent Publishing, Hybrid, Old Model, New Model, Etc.
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MJNL
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Re: Success!

Postby MJNL » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:56 am

Congrats on your Abyss and Apex sale! That's awesome.

And as for rejetomancy: a few days longer or shorter of the average response time on duotrope doesn't mean anything. It's not until the wait is obscenely out of whack that you can even start trying to read into it (at that point I usually worry the story never arrived, but I'm always wrong.) Take IGMS for instance. Their average is somewhere around 30. Personal rejections (in my experience) don't come out of there until around day 75. And a personal means someone (or several someones) recommended it and Mr. Schubert looked it over. So, in a way, the story isn't even seriously considered unless it makes it well past that average.

Not saying this to be a downer, just saying rejectomancy gets you no where. The only things that really help you know where you stand are brutally honest crits, personal rejections (they let you know where you stand with a particular editor), and publications. The rest is just radio silence.
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vanaaron
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Re: Success!

Postby vanaaron » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:59 am

Thanks, everyone!

Patty, it's true A&A can take quite a while, but only if they like your stuff, so you just need to write crappier stories. I had a previous submission there rejected in 15 days. :wink:

Scott, thanks very much for the kind words about "The Dualist." So as you were reading the book, were you figuring out how you would have illustrated the other stories, if you had been assigned a different one?

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Re: Success!

Postby Brad R. Torgersen » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:18 am

Hey, nice sale! Skrogiltations!!

:D
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Re: Success!

Postby vanaaron » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:02 pm

Thanks, Brad!

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Re: Success!

Postby soulmirror » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:35 pm

vanaaron wrote:Scott, thanks very much for the kind words about "The Dualist." So as you were reading the book, were you figuring out how you would have illustrated the other stories, if you had been assigned a different one?


Yikes, there's a question that opens a myriad of discussions!

But the answer is, yes, that's definitely a challenge I've enjoyed putting myself through since I first started entering the IOTF contest across a dozen or so anthologies : Reading the Story, then looking at its illustration and asking myself "Is THAT the best moment to illustrate, the best chord to hit from that story and those characters?"

Because honestly, some of the art in previous anthologies I always figured "I could've won against that" ... and some you look at and you think "This artist is vastly superiour to my stuff."

So knowing that eventually you CAN win a quarterly contest, the main focus becomes (in my mind experiment, looking at past winners) ...

What's it take to illustrate YOUR story so well that it might (might) overcome the other artists' superiour technical skillz? :twisted:

So, yes, I've imagined how I would've illustrated the stories in #27.

I realize I'm talking more to the WRITERS here than other illustrators here ... but I can honestly say I thought all the stories were well-served by their illustrators in #27.

And I can promise you that the art you see in more than a few of the stories in the book # 27 ... doesn't do the original art or illustrators justice, honestly.

Some of those illustrations which printed DARK ... positively GLOWED standing in front of it in awe of it at the workshop. (I can say that and also admit that MINE pretty much reproduced exactly as drawn. Pen & ink reproduces pretty exactly, if you remember it will be reduced onto pulp paper ... Half tones such as colour painting ... was beautiful to the human eye, but took a hit in reproduction)

Based on the one criteria for judging the Gold Award ("Does the illustration make you want to read the story?") I can honestly say that I thought Fred Edwards' illustration for your THE DUALIST was definitely among the top three possible and worthy winners!

You and your story got a GREAT ILLUSTRATION! :)

Just my opinion ... but definitely I was looking at Freddy's art and thought "Here's one of three that probably have me beat!"

And I was thinking mine had a decent chance itself, since I knew Patty had written a story that had gotten me at my best!

Some of them, yes, I flatter myself to think I might have done them differently, chosen another scene, etc ...

I think the illustration for THE DUALIST was great. And you saw it too, I think you'd agree how radiant it was in person!
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Re: Success!

Postby vanaaron » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:05 pm

Yes, I was absolutely delighted with Freddie's illustration for my story. His vision of the alien species was much better than anything I had conceived in my head, and he brought out a lot of details from the story in that one picture. His is one of the illustrations that's even more striking in the full size -- now hanging on the wall in my study. :D

I also agree that all of the illustrators did a terrific job with their stories, yourself included. But you all effectively combined your own styles with the stories (for example, you took a less literal approach than most), which got me wondering how it would have come out if the artists had received different assignments. Given the tremendous level of talent in the group, I am sure you all would have come through admirably with any of the stories.

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Re: Success!

Postby soulmirror » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:41 pm

vanaaron wrote:I also agree that all of the illustrators did a terrific job with their stories, yourself included. But you all effectively combined your own styles with the stories (for example, you took a less literal approach than most), which got me wondering how it would have come out if the artists had received different assignments.


well ... left unchecked, I could drone on and on about that issue too! :roll: I don't know about the other illustrators, but in fact the art director did politely, respectfully challenge me about my "non-literal" interpretation of the story. :) (We each had to submit three different concept sketches, and she'd approve the one she liked etc. Mine had changed enough from that one that she did e-mail me with a few questions)

Without discussing it to the extent that it becomes a spoiler to those who haven't read the stories yet (Whaaaat?! We're quarters into the next volume! Read yer competition, fer cryin' out loud!) ...

My illustration was trying (maybe successfully, maybe not) to refer back to and envision/illustrate Brother Copernicus' subjective mental state ... I took from the story that one of the important concepts was human hubris and human confusion ... and drew a picture both hubristic and confusing, I guess! :mrgreen:

It's a common issue, do you illustrate an exact scene literally ... or do you try to find what the story is "about" and then add your own artistic interpretation of that? Is one allowed to extrapolate based on what the author may have left as only a hint?

I remember another thread here where that was discussed: If a story has characters mentioning a space battle that was important to their story ... but as a past event ... is it fair to illustrate the space battle?

We don't "see" it happen in present tense, but if characters discuss it, it's still been summoned up by the author for the reader to imagine it.

I asked that question HERE, and it turned into an HM story two quarters later!

My past WOTF HM story had that same issue: the CURRENT conflict all revolves around what happened during a PAST space battle, that's the most important image OF the story, but the story allows it to be a mystery until the end. As an illustrator, i knew that presented two issues: DON'T give away the twist ending to the mystery; but YES the space battle is what the story is ABOUT, and its one big "catch-yer-eye" action scene. the best scene to illustrate ... is only talked about.

In Patty's story, what the humans THINK ... is very important. But I suggested that their THOUGHTS I was showing weren't necessarily literally true.
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Re: Success!

Postby izanobu » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:41 pm

I'm calling this a success- I am officially a Clarion grad now. Oh, home and real food and real bed... how I missed you!

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Re: Success!

Postby gower21 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:20 pm

izanobu wrote: Oh, home and real food and real bed... how I missed you!


And armed with a great example of polysyndeton! (multiple conjunctions in a sentence)...

Congratulations!!! (to the Clarion completion, not the great polysyndetion, rhetorical device use).

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Re: Success!

Postby katsincommand » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:13 pm

izanobu wrote:I'm calling this a success- I am officially a Clarion grad now. Oh, home and real food and real bed... how I missed you!


Congrats on making it through. Do you feel any different? <eg> other than tired of course.

ps willing to bribe you for tips on how to get accepted heehee
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Re: Success!

Postby Jess » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:33 pm

izanobu wrote:I'm calling this a success- I am officially a Clarion grad now. Oh, home and real food and real bed... how I missed you!

Congratulations!

I was looking into Clarion not too long ago, but instead of pursuing the matter, I ended up hemming and hawing and filing it away in some mothballed cabinet in the darkest depths of my memory.

I haven't really spoken to anyone who did it, though, which, I imagine, is half of why it drifted into the abyss. Out of curiosity, how much do you think you got out of it?
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Re: Success!

Postby E.CaimanSands » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:54 am

izanobu wrote:I'm calling this a success- I am officially a Clarion grad now. Oh, home and real food and real bed... how I missed you!


Congrats, Annie! That's a real feather in your hat.
And I'm sure if I'd tried six weeks that intensive they'd have to carry me out in a coffin. wotf019
Either that or I would have turned into the rampaging alligator from Hell and they'd have to carry everyone else out in a coffin. Just the one coffin, as I expect the remains would be minimal... wotf040
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Re: Success!

Postby kyle » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:04 am

izanobu wrote:I'm calling this a success- I am officially a Clarion grad now. Oh, home and real food and real bed... how I missed you!

Congratulations, and let me be the first to welcome you back to sanity. wotf001

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Re: Success!

Postby izanobu » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:15 pm

Thanks, guys. Clarion is a pretty unique experience. It was fairly awesome for me, if stressful at times. I think it would largely depend on the class dynamics and the teaching ability of the various instructors, so each year is different, I think.

Dawn- no need to bribe. If you want to get in, apply with your strongest two stories. Rinse. Repeat. Next year's instructor line-up for both Clarion and Clarion West are pretty amazing, so I say that if you think you can take the 6 weeks, feel like you are in a mentally and emotionally stable enough place with your writing to be able to get something out of it, and have the monies, apply for sure.

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Re: Success!

Postby Alex Kane » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:27 pm

Just made my first pro sale! (W00t!) My short story "In the Arms of Lachiga," the first of several cyberpunk pieces in what I call, rather generically, the Lachiga Continuity, will appear in the next volume of Digital Science Fiction. So I guess I'll be appearing alongside Mr. Shoemaker! Among a couple other familiar names, I'm betting.
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Re: Success!

Postby izanobu » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:34 pm

W00t! Go Alex!

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Re: Success!

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:34 pm

Alex Kane wrote:Just made my first pro sale! (W00t!) My short story "In the Arms of Lachiga," the first of several cyberpunk pieces in what I call, rather generically, the Lachiga Continuity, will appear in the next volume of Digital Science Fiction. So I guess I'll be appearing alongside Mr. Shoemaker! Among a couple other familiar names, I'm betting.


YEEEHAAAAAA, Alex! That's fantastic news!

You'll love working with Christine. She's an awesome editor. I fear she may have spoiled me for editors in the future!
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WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
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Re: Success!

Postby soulmirror » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:07 pm

Alex Kane wrote:Just made my first pro sale! (W00t!) My short story "In the Arms of Lachiga," the first of several cyberpunk pieces in what I call, rather generically, the Lachiga Continuity, will appear in the next volume of Digital Science Fiction. So I guess I'll be appearing alongside Mr. Shoemaker! Among a couple other familiar names, I'm betting.


Congratulations! "First pro sale" !!! I know what a thrill one of those would be -- or will know if I ever get one! So HUGE congrats on that cool milestone in your future career, Alex!
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Re: Success!

Postby ThomasKCarpenter » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:32 pm

Alex Kane wrote:Just made my first pro sale! (W00t!) My short story "In the Arms of Lachiga," the first of several cyberpunk pieces in what I call, rather generically, the Lachiga Continuity, will appear in the next volume of Digital Science Fiction. So I guess I'll be appearing alongside Mr. Shoemaker! Among a couple other familiar names, I'm betting.


Grats!
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Re: Success!

Postby MJNL » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:33 pm

Awesome! wotf010
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Re: Success!

Postby WriteToLive » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:00 pm

Alex Kane wrote:Just made my first pro sale! (W00t!) My short story "In the Arms of Lachiga," the first of several cyberpunk pieces in what I call, rather generically, the Lachiga Continuity, will appear in the next volume of Digital Science Fiction. So I guess I'll be appearing alongside Mr. Shoemaker! Among a couple other familiar names, I'm betting.


wotf009 Congrats, Alex.
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Re: Success!

Postby gower21 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:42 pm

Yeahhh!!! I can't wait to read it now! When will it be out?

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Re: Success!

Postby E.CaimanSands » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:41 am

Alex Kane wrote:Just made my first pro sale! (W00t!) My short story "In the Arms of Lachiga," the first of several cyberpunk pieces in what I call, rather generically, the Lachiga Continuity, will appear in the next volume of Digital Science Fiction. So I guess I'll be appearing alongside Mr. Shoemaker! Among a couple other familiar names, I'm betting.


Awesomeness! wotf007
And yeah, quite a few familiar names have graced the pages of DSF now...
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Re: Success!

Postby Strycher » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:07 am

Alex Kane wrote:Just made my first pro sale! (W00t!)


Congrats!

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Re: Success!

Postby Alex Kane » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:17 am

gower21 wrote:Yeahhh!!! I can't wait to read it now! When will it be out?

Not sure, Tina, but I'd guess September. You all will be the first to know. wotf007
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Re: Success!

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:40 am

Alex Kane wrote:
gower21 wrote:Yeahhh!!! I can't wait to read it now! When will it be out?

Not sure, Tina, but I'd guess September. You all will be the first to know. wotf007


Volumes 1 and 2 were pretty much in the first week, maybe week-and-a-half in their months (June and July). Volume 3 hasn't been announced yet, but I expect it soon.

If that trend continues, look for Vol. 4 in early-middle September. POD version toward the end of the month. My mom and sister have got their copies of Vol. 2 (but I'm still waiting for mine).
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WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
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Re: Success!

Postby gower21 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:44 am

Nice! I'll keep my eye out for it next month. I can't wait to read your pro debut Alex!

I'm looking forward to the next installment of Martin's stories about the Old Town Tavern...the next story in DSF is one of those right? I'm kinda a series junkie. When I find one I like I try to read them all *insert smilie here...too many new ones to choose!!*

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Re: Success!

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:08 am

gower21 wrote:Nice! I'll keep my eye out for it next month. I can't wait to read your pro debut Alex!

I'm looking forward to the next installment of Martin's stories about the Old Town Tavern...the next story in DSF is one of those right? I'm kinda a series junkie. When I find one I like I try to read them all *insert smilie here...too many new ones to choose!!*


Thanks, Tina! My next DSF story, "Father-Daughter Outing", is something of an Old Town prequel. I hadn't realized it when I started, but it turned out that the 14-year-old protagonist of the story is Eliza the barkeeper in "The Night We Flushed the Old Town". I don't know her whole story yet, but I suspect there are more Eliza stories to tell. Sometime between an aspiring young explorer and a no-nonsense barkeeper, she was a drill sergeant, I know that much.
http://Shoemaker.Space
Other worlds from award-winning author Martin L. Shoemaker

WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT!
REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT!
Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience.
NNiNN

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Re: Success!

Postby Alex Kane » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:24 pm

gower21 wrote:Nice! I'll keep my eye out for it next month. I can't wait to read your pro debut Alex!

I'm looking forward to the next installment of Martin's stories about the Old Town Tavern...the next story in DSF is one of those right? I'm kinda a series junkie. When I find one I like I try to read them all *insert smilie here...too many new ones to choose!!*

Thanks, Tina! Glad to hear it.

I've currently got four stories, two longish short stories and two flash pieces, set in the Lachiga continuity. One of them sold months ago to a small press anthology of LGBT-themed sf, so that should be out soon. The two flash pieces are each a prelude of sorts to "In the Arms of Lachiga," with each hopefully functioning to set up the protagonist and antagonist from the main story.

I'm toying with the idea of posting those two stories on my blog for free, and then including them both in an eventual ebook version of "In the Arms of Lachiga," six months from September. Whaddaya think?
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Re: Success!

Postby Martin L. Shoemaker » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:55 pm

Alex Kane wrote:I'm toying with the idea of posting those two stories on my blog for free, and then including them both in an eventual ebook version of "In the Arms of Lachiga," six months from September. Whaddaya think?


Sounds pretty good! If you've got stories you think don't stand on their own commercially, they still might fill a niche in a collection.

I have one story I consider very important on a personal level. I think it's a multi-layered story that says important things both about science and about science fiction. I fear it will never sell, because on the surface level, almost nothing happens. But if some day I publish the collection I have in mind, it'll be part of the collection.
http://Shoemaker.Space
Other worlds from award-winning author Martin L. Shoemaker

WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT! SUBMIT!
REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT! REPEAT!
Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience.
NNiNN


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