Hugo Award Nominees

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orbivillein
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby orbivillein » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:48 pm

I thought Day's (Theodore Beale) slate was the Rabid Puppies.

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby ThomasKCarpenter » Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:45 pm

Thought I would add this to my earlier comment as proof of VD's intentions.

http://file770.com/?p=21780&cpage=1#comment-250236
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby orbivillein » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:10 pm

Brydar wrote:
FictionMuse wrote:6 nominations the same year. Surely that's a record. 3 nominations in the same category. Didn't know you could do that.


Best Novella
One Bright Star to Guide Them, John C. Wright
“Pale Realms of Shade”, John C. Wright
“The Plural of Helen of Troy”, John C. Wright

Best Novelette
“Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus”, John C. Wright

Best Short Story
“The Parliament of Beasts and Birds”, John C. Wright

Best Related Work
"Transhuman and Subhuman: Essays on Science Fiction and Awful Truth," John C. Wright

Color me ignorant and I am sorry if I offend a fan but who is John C. Wright? Until a moment ago when I googled his name I had no idea who he was. And I am perplexed as well, I thought you could only be nominated once per category. Is this 3x nomination for one category in a way padding the voting box for one author? Unless there is another author with more than one nomination for a novella I expect John C. Wright will win in that category (based solely on statistics).

Wright is a Puppy slate selection whose personal and public beliefs align with the Puppies' campaign platform. So-called loopholes discovered in the Hugo process opened the door for voting block campaigns, that had not previously been aggressively organized campaigns like the Oscars and Emmys and other awards for distinction have encountered for a long time. I guess the Hugos have come of age and joined the mainstream.

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby LDWriter2 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:58 pm

orbivillein wrote:Wright is a Puppy slate selection whose personal and public beliefs align with the Puppies' campaign platform. So-called loopholes discovered in the Hugo process opened the door for voting block campaigns, that had not previously been aggressively organized campaigns like the Oscars and Emmys and other awards for distinction have encountered for a long time. I guess the Hugos have come of age and joined the mainstream.



Which Puppy slate? Evidently there are two with different goals.
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby s_c_baker » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:19 pm

Wright is present on both slates, but the vast majority of his noms come from Rabid Puppies (Vox Day's version). He only has one short and one novella on Sad Puppies (Brad's version).

Unless there is another author with more than one nomination for a novella I expect John C. Wright will win in that category (based solely on statistics).

Another option, and one that quite a few people are considering, is just voting "No Award" in every category.

GRRM has been writing up excellent posts about the whole mess, by the way, for anyone who wants to read up on things without getting embroiled in vitriolic spewing of hatred from one viewpoint or another.

On the mechanics of "slate voting" or whatever you want to call it: http://grrm.livejournal.com/417125.html

More on "blogging for votes": http://grrm.livejournal.com/417812.html

Martin's opinion on what SP/RP are REALLY about: http://grrm.livejournal.com/418285.html

And Larry Correia's response to the last (which is incredibly long and has a lot of bolded/italic font--proceed at your own eyes' risk...) http://monsterhunternation.com/2015/04/09/a-response-to-george-r-r-martin-from-the-author-who-started-sad-puppies/
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby izanobu » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:07 pm

Here is GRRM talking about why No Award as a policy is a terrible idea: http://grrm.livejournal.com/418643.html

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby orbivillein » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:03 am

And next year and after the Hugo slate campaigns will rain kittens and puppies and bulls and bears and the Know-Nothing party candidates and scores more. Individual porcupines -- they once upon a time were happily ever after, bristled at confrontation and went otherwise contentfully unbothered.

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby E.CaimanSands » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:06 am

orbivillein wrote:And next year and after the Hugo slate campaigns will rain kittens and puppies and bulls and bears and the Know-Nothing party candidates and scores more. Individual porcupines -- they once upon a time were happily ever after, bristled at confrontation and went otherwise contentfully unbothered.


Actually, Gator has already written her own spoof Happy Snappy Gator slate. She desperately wants to post it on Facebook, but I'm wrestling with her, telling her that's a Bad Idea. wotf005

Seriously, I really have written one. Several ideas came to me, then they just kept coming. wotf019 It's all written out in notepad. It makes me chuckle at least. wotf019
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby orbivillein » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:32 am

Mine is a no-platform slate, but that's a slate too. I believe science fiction's difference from other stories and function is to explore how humans and the like deal with science, technology, and public and private values and how well a story gets them across. Call the slate, well, post neo-classical, I don't know, what, Sciencetifical Romance: pncSR? Or just Sigh-phigh Cappa Fidelity: SpCF. Hey, it already has a name -- science fiction.

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby Ishmael » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:19 am

E.CaimanSands wrote:Actually, Gator has already written her own spoof Happy Snappy Gator slate.


What a scandal that will be,
Down with fishes! One, two, three!
Like to see them add a 'gate'
To the Happy Snappy Gator Slate!

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby amoskalik » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:29 am

Ishmael wrote:
E.CaimanSands wrote:Actually, Gator has already written her own spoof Happy Snappy Gator slate.


What a scandal that will be,
Down with fishes! One, two, three!
Like to see them add a 'gate'
To the Happy Snappy Gator Slate!

wotf011


I like that:
Gator Slate Gate.
It has a Happy Snappy sound to it.
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby s_c_baker » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:11 am

izanobu wrote:Here is GRRM talking about why No Award as a policy is a terrible idea: http://grrm.livejournal.com/418643.html

Yes, this latest one is especially worth reading. :)

I intend to consider every story and every finalist in every category, and vote for those that I think worthy of Hugos. I will vote NO AWARD, I promise you, but only where No Award is warranted. (Truth be told, I vote No Award every year in almost every category. Usually not in first, admittedly... but I don't just look at a category and rank them one to five in order of preference, I rank the ones I think rocket-worthy above No Award, and the ones I don't below).

This ballot is the worst I have ever seen, admittedly, and there are stories and writers on it who are not fit to polish a Hugo, much less win one. But there's good stuff as well, and talented writers whose work I have enjoyed, and I am not going to vote against them just because the Sad Puppies like them too.
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby E.CaimanSands » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:03 am

Ishmael wrote:
E.CaimanSands wrote:Actually, Gator has already written her own spoof Happy Snappy Gator slate.


What a scandal that will be,
Down with fishes! One, two, three!
Like to see them add a 'gate'
To the Happy Snappy Gator Slate!

wotf011


Haha, yes, Gator Slate Gate. You'd need a mouth as large as hers to say that repeatedly.
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby E.CaimanSands » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:24 am

I haven't read all the commentaries and arguments by GRRM or anyone else. All I'm thinking is, whether someone has written a Hugo-quality story or not, in my view folks shouldn't allow themselves to be put on such a slate, it's politicizing our creative industry to too great a degree and is entirely unnecessary.

Now, this could be a purely hypocritical view on my part. If Brad came to me and said, "Gator, I love your story X, it's the shade of story I want to see more of and I want to put it on my slate next year, is that okay?" would I say no? I honestly don't know. I honestly might not. It's a HUGO, blast it! wotf019 But I know that I'd feel I *ought* to say no, even if I really had written the best story since... since... whenever (unlikely as that might be I know. wotf004 )

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby E.CaimanSands » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:29 am

As an addendum to that, I believe *some* folk have taken a stand and declined to be put on any kind of slate. Indeed, I think our own Martin Shoemaker may well be one of the folks trying to stand above all this and if that is true I can only applaud him and others like him.

One reason I had him on my Happy Snappy Gator slate.

Yes, Gator, quite right too.
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby amoskalik » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:06 am

E.CaimanSands wrote:I haven't read all the commentaries and arguments by GRRM or anyone else. All I'm thinking is, whether someone has written a Hugo-quality story or not, in my view folks shouldn't allow themselves to be put on such a slate, it's politicizing our creative industry to too great a degree and is entirely unnecessary.

Now, this could be a purely hypocritical view on my part. If Brad came to me and said, "Gator, I love your story X, it's the shade of story I want to see more of and I want to put it on my slate next year, is that okay?" would I say no? I honestly don't know. I honestly might not. It's a HUGO, blast it! wotf019 But I know that I'd feel I *ought* to say no, even if I really had written the best story since... since... whenever (unlikely as that might be I know. wotf004 )

wotf017


I honestly don't know what I would do in that unlikely event either. I would definitely be conflicted though.
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby Ishmael » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:03 pm

Now if the next Worldcon were to be in San Francisco we could maybe persuade our scaly friend to promote the Happy Snappy Gator Golden Gate Slate.

And if it's in Snowdonia it could be the Happy Snappy Gator Welsh Slate Slate.

What about Long John's Pieces of Eight Slate?

There's that too. This one could run and run. Did I ever tell you how I once applied for a job on The Washington Post?

Would that be the Old Folk Who Actually Remember Watergate Slate?

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby LDWriter2 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:40 pm

Hmm,Verrry interesting prospect (for those old folks who recall the Watergate slate this is said by a short German solider hiding behind a potted plant)


But Personally I think I would allow it with anyone but Vox's slate if what Martin says is true about him and I don't doubt it is. Except for the little detail about editors not liking my writing, that is.


And Ishmael you are already on the Barnes and Noble slate.

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby Ishmael » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:12 am

LDWriter2 wrote:And Ishmael you are already on the Barnes and Noble slate.
wotf011


But nobody asked me first. It's just like in the Hall of Fame. They all take my name for granted and nobody pays me any royalties.

Except when it comes to lists of people eligible for the Campbell Award wotf017 where they don't manage to include my name.

But that's all right because I don't sign up for Worldcon either. Once upon a time I used to attend conferences for a living. Now I live in the middle of nowhere. Except once a year when I come down from the hills for the Falkirk Festival.

Then I go back up again. wotf011
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby E.CaimanSands » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:47 am

Ishmael wrote:Now if the next Worldcon were to be in San Francisco we could maybe persuade our scaly friend to promote the Happy Snappy Gator Golden Gate Slate.

And if it's in Snowdonia it could be the Happy Snappy Gator Welsh Slate Slate.



Heh. Don't give her ideas, I still haven't entirely convinced her that posting the Happy Snappy Gator slate on FB is a Bad Idea. It's still possible she'll do it despite me, behind my back when I'm not looking, in stealth mode. She does things like that at times. wotf005

After finally weakening and reading one of the commentaries on the awards, The Guardian article, she's pointing out that there's no way her slate is worse than that.

The article is here, incidently: http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2015/apr/06/are-the-hugo-nominees-really-the-best-sci-fi-books-of-the-year

Ouch.
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby ThomasKCarpenter » Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:57 pm

GRRM really hits it out of the park on this one.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/419232.html
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby Brydar » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:31 am

ThomasKCarpenter wrote:GRRM really hits it out of the park on this one.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/419232.html

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby FictionMuse » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:39 am

Now one of Wright's stories has been disqualified:

http://file770.com/?p=21886

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby E.CaimanSands » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:39 pm

FictionMuse wrote:Now one of Wright's stories has been disqualified:

http://file770.com/?p=21886


Wonder if John Wright is rich and bankrolled all those dodgy Puppy nominations? wotf007

Hmm, I really don't know, Gator, I haven't heard that he's especially rich or anything.

Well someone bankrolled them.

It seems they may have. But do you really care who? It's essentially electoral fraud whoever organized it. Maybe technically no laws have been broken but it goes against the spirit of a free and fair ballot. Which is ultimately why everyone is so mad. There's nothing that annoys folk more than a rigged ballot.

Puppies claim Hugos are often biased as peeps campaign. Puppies claim this year isn't so different.

But campaigning is a perfectly legitimate part of democracy. Indeed, it's an important part of democracy. Without campaigns where would voters get the information they need to choose between candidates?

Still wondering who has the money to buy all those votes though. wotf006

Er. Why? do you want to know?

They be rich enough to buy fish farm for nice gators, maybe. wotf006

Dream on, Gator.

'kay. wotf043

Oh. And there she goes. wotf001
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby s_c_baker » Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:33 pm

Jon Eno was also removed from the ballot on account of not having sold an eligible work during 2014.

Another John C Wright nomination (the short story) is also apparently questionable, having appeared on his website from March of 2013 through December last year, before being removed and then released as part of his fiction collection--and apparently being largely identical in its latter incarnation, with a few minor revisions.
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby E.CaimanSands » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:22 pm

JMS has spoken. And personally I think he's spot on.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=963692290332301&id=139652459402959&fref=nf

It shouldn't be down to the nominees to withdraw themselves, that's a horrible thing to have to do. They should just cancel the whole thing if they think it's a mess.
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby george nik. » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:42 pm

Annie Bellet has just withdrawn her story, which is very sad because she's such a good writer. I hope she'll have her chance on a brighter day.
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby E.CaimanSands » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:42 pm

george nik. wrote:Annie Bellet has just withdrawn her story, which is very sad because she's such a good writer. I hope she'll have her chance on a brighter day.


Yup. Agreed.
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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby orbivillein » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:13 pm

What matters most, long term, for awards is how effectively, eventually if not sooner, candidates and winners nobly represent and transcend the human condition. Period.

How WorldCon navigates these turbulent shoals will make or break the Hugos for a brief time. They will, as all shows must, go on. The organizers are hamstrung by the rules to apply fairly and impartially only the organization's rules as they are at present.

But voters have the inevitable next-to-last say. The scandal attracted voters for every faction. It ain't over 'till it's over. WorldCon gains membership revenue. The last say is only a matter, according to the rules, of certifying eligibility. Disqualifying several nominees due to ineligibility spoke volumes.

This too shall pass.

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Re: Hugo Award Nominees

Postby FictionMuse » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:14 pm

Diabolical Plots has launched an award in response to the Hugo balloting controversies. The Mulligan Award. Not sure where the name Mulligan came from.

http://www.diabolicalplots.com/announci ... ting-bloc/


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